Episode 10: The Episode We Never Planned

Trigger warning: this conversation includes miscarriage and pregnancy loss.

One ultrasound can split life into a before and an after. We walk you through the day we expected a routine appointment and instead heard the words we were dreading: no growth and no cardiac activity. We talk about the moment the measurement didn’t match the timeline, how we read the doctor’s face before the explanation even landed, and what it feels like to leave the clinic while the world outside keeps moving like nothing happened.

Transcript

Trigger Warning And Return

0:00

Hey friends. Quick pause before we start. We wanna make sure that we give you guys a trigger warning, as this episode does touch on the subject of miscarriage. So please, if you're listening to this, take care of yourself as you listen, and if you'd rather skip this episode, we completely understand. With love, Haley and Yaya Um, hi, everybody. We're back. Hi. We're back with the, um, episode I'm sure everyone has been waiting to hear, or also unsure if they're going to hear an episode. Um, we don't necessarily know if this is our last episode. This is just... Welcome back to this episode. Yeah, let's just start, start it like that. I start everyone out on a really great note, why don't we? Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's, that's kinda how this is gonna go today. So, um, welcome back.

Light Check-Ins Before The Loss

1:20

Uh, I guess we just wanna start out with, um, our general check-ins like usual. Uh, I listened to a new musical on Spotify. It was really good. Um, got me in my feels. Um, for me, music is like, I don't know, like music can make me very emotional in like a good way. So, um, I listened to Hadestown, which was really good. Um, it's about like the story of like Hades and Persephone kind of, and then it throws like a, a different twist on it. That was really good if you wanna listen to something new. And I have this really weird whooshing in my ear, um, when I lay down. So usually what that means is there's something wrong with my blood pressure. Hmm. Um, so that's fun. I had my friend at work, Allie, take my, um, blood pressure laying down, sitting, and standing up today at work. Wow. Um, it was all normal, so I don't know. Hopefully that just goes away, or like everyone tells me, I have to drink more water. I feel like I drink so much water, but whatever. I'll keep you updated on my medical issues apparently. Anyways, what about you? Um I haven't really been listening to anything. I actually haven't even listened to the Harry Potter book. Um, just been busy, just trying to stay busy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So why don't we just, I guess, jump in. Um,

The Appointment Turns Devastating

2:44

so Yaya gave you the kind of, um, topic we're talking about today, so grab your tissues. Sorry, this is probably gonna be a super emotional one for both of us. Um, if, yeah, I mean, just to throw a funny in there, um, definitely gonna be worse than when Dumbledore died, um, gonna be 100% worse than you watched The Notebook for the first time, and way worse than listening to the last song in Hamilton live, because tearjerkers, all of those. Um, but besides that, um, Yaya's gonna be a true editing queen and edit out all our sob fests that occur in this probably, so if it's a little choppy, that's why. Um, but yeah, sorry, I- that's all the light stuff I got for now. So- um, we'll go ahead and jump right into our last appointment and what happened. So if you're not aware, um, from our posts, we, uh, saw that there was no growth on our ultrasound and then no cardiac activity. So um, rough appointment last Thursday. But Yaya, I guess, do you wanna talk about your perspective of the day, like what was going through your head? Yeah. I think what really threw me off was that I was not expecting that to be a bad appointment, and we talk a lot in our previous episodes about just, like, where my head space has been and how, you know, holding my breath and cautiously hopeful, and all of that was true. But I didn't go into that appointment thinking anything negative was going to be told. We had just had a really good appointment the previous week. I remember we got there a little early. We were sitting, we were joking, we were laughing up until the appointment, um, when the news was broken to us, and it's just the contrast of that room. I wish, you know, if you were watching it in, in a movie, the contrast of just how the mood shifted completely from the moment we walked in and how we were laughing and joking, and then the complete opposite on our way out. Um, my perspective, what was going through my mind, uh... The appointment started with our doctor and some nurses and doctors that were shadowing him. It was a full house. I think there were about four people in the room with him, and someone was conducting the ultrasound while he was on the monitor. And at first glance, I'm just watching. I see that there's the sac, and I see that there's, I guess, the fetus, um, at this point, and it looked bigger than the prior week, so I was so excited. And that, that feeling of this is all going to be good news was still there until I didn't see the flicker and he couldn't get the heartbeat, and then he took over And his face was telling. And I-- he measured it, and when he measured it, it measured at six weeks, which we would've been closer to eight weeks at this appointment. And I saw when he measured the size of the baby, and it was measuring at six weeks. That was when it officially hit me. Not when he couldn't find the heartbeat, not when I didn't see the flicker, because I'm very much a, you know, technology you can't trust technology all the time, or maybe he's just having difficulty. But once I saw that measurement, that's when it clicked for me. Those other two things, those other two red flags made sense at that point. It was almost like my, my mind was denying the inevitable until I saw that it read the six weeks. And then I just felt my soul just, like, crash into me. And, um, you know, obviously you and I, we were holding hands, and I think at that very moment was when I officially squeezed your hand. Um, I think... You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you squeezing mine throughout. Because I think we were both capturing and understanding what was happening, but I hadn't accepted it. And that was when I accepted it, I squeezed your hand, and then he asked everyone to leave the room for a moment with us. And I think I, I was in almost pilot mode at that point. I was trying to process everything, but also it was my first time being an outsider in on a situation. And so it really allowed me to put myself in Jonathan's shoes, both in that appointment, both on that drive to-- when we were driving home. Because typically in these sorts of appointments, I sobbed the entire drive home. I can't drive. Jonathan has always had to drive or, um, Andy one time drove, and I was sobbing the whole time. So, like, I... It allowed me to really put myself in his shoes and just understand, like, that role of having strong feelings about the situation, but also knowing I've gotta get us home. And having to... I don't wanna say I had to, like, shut those feelings, but I did have to, um I had to almost, like, figure out how to calm my nervous system more than maybe I wanted to. Um, I didn't have, like, my full sob moment until I got home and I threw myself in John's arms and I just lost it. So yeah, it, it was, it was an interesting appointment, and interesting to put it lightly. It was devastating. Um- Yeah. I think, I think the, the reality of what that meant didn't even hit me in that moment. I don't think that that hit me until Sunday until yesterday of what truly this means for us, I think that I was trying to, again, deny the inevitable of what it truly means for us. Um, obviously you and I have talked a lot since Thursday, both about our feelings about what this means and how John and I are processing, and I'm sure we'll get to that too, but I think just my perspective of that day was it sucks. It just sucked. That's the best way I could put it into words was, "This sucks," I was so happy when Dr. Jarrett told you, you did nothing wrong. You did nothing wrong, and he said it, and, you know, I think I hugged you and I said, "You did nothing wrong," in your ear, and I wanted to keep repeating that because I know how easy it is to spiral into thinking that, when in reality it's not that at all, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. And so it was so important for me to, to make sure that that wasn't your perspective yeah. Um, yeah, what about you?

Haley’s View Of The Room

10:30

Well, yeah, um, I mean, a lot of what you felt, I felt, so, ugh, my perspective of the day. So I guess going into it, I was so confident. Like, I was like, "Everything's great." Like, "There's no issues. Everything's going how it's supposed to be going." Um- I do remember getting into the room and, like, just waiting on the table for them, and it being, like, a little bit longer than usual. Um, it maybe was, like, only 10 minutes though. I was nervous at that point. I don't know, just because I think at that point I was like, "What if it doesn't happen?" Like, what, you know, what now can go wrong? Um, so I think that, that was part of it. And I know when you said, like, what, what a difference it was from when we came, when we went in to when we went out, and just to put it into, like, perspective as well, like, I remember in our group chat, it was hard to look at afterwards too, because I remember you took a picture of this green sofa chair that was in this ultrasound room. And I know John was joking, like, the week before when he came with us, and he stayed in the car. He was like, "There's no room for me in those ultrasound rooms." He's like, "There's no way I can fit in there," and whatever. So we were in a bigger room this time, and I remember YaYa sent a picture of that chair across from us, and then the next text, like, you go back and see is, like, bad news. Like, we, there was no growth and no, no heartbeat. Like, it's just, yeah, um, a really big shift in emotion. Um, I was definitely shell-shocked, I think. Like, just when he was doing the ultrasound, like, for the first few, you know, 30 seconds, like, whatever, we were fine. You know, we saw what we were, we wanted to see. And then when he took over, I just, like, I think my brain just saw it in his face, even though probably nothing changed on his face. Um, and then, yeah, he, when he, like, asked me to sit up, and then asked everyone if they could leave, it was really hard. Um, and I just remember looking down, and, like, I couldn't look at him, 'cause I feel like I was gonna, like, straight up start sobbing. Um- So yeah, um, I do appreciate him saying that, you know, saying like, "It's not your fault," and I know that's a lot of the feelings that, um, you know, either surrogates or I can imagine other surrogates feel, or even you felt when you went through your losses as well. Like, you go back and think of like, "What did I do wrong?" I think, uh, what hit me hard too was, I mean, I'm pretty sure he started crying. Mm-hmm. Um- Yeah so that was hard, just knowing that, like, the people there, like some of the people there are, like, so invested in your life. I mean, how could they not after how many years, um, of seeing that over and over? But, um- Yeah, I think that was kind of my reaction. Very, very blindsided. Um, I just remember we sat there. He was just like, "Take all the time you need." And I was like... I just remember thinking, like, "Okay, well I'm not gonna sit in here all day and cry." Um, so I'm like, "We gotta get it together at some point." Um, so yeah, just like us hugging and crying and I do remember squeezing your hand a lot during the ultrasound. I just think, going through my head, I was like, "Everything's gonna be okay," like, "Everything's fine," and obviously it wasn't. Um- But yeah, I think leaving the room was also hard because I know at least myself, I was trying to keep it together. And of course, like, we go out and there's, you know, all the nurses and whatever, like laughing and, you know, at the nurses' desk, which is not their fault at all. Like, I get it, I work in the medical field. Like, you don't know what's happening in every, everyone else's room. Like, you don't know everyone else's situation, and you have to enjoy your day. Like, you can't expect everyone to be having a terrible, shit-ass day. So, um, I think that was hard, and also just walking up and I think, like myself, like, my brain was trying to catch up to like, what now? Like, what, like, what do we need to be doing? Or like, what should, what should I have asked? Um, so I think that was hard 'cause I was like, "Should we check if, like, my hormone levels are fine? Like, was that the problem?" Or like, you start spiraling, spiraling into what went wrong. Um, so I remember asking the nurse to see if, like, he thought we should do hormone blood work, because before he left the room, he was basically like, "Next step, you know, we'll get an HCG level, and, you know, you can go downstairs and get that, and then you can go." So that was, that was it. That was all we got from, you know, when we were leaving. And I understand, like, obviously we're both losing it at that moment. Yeah, he's, he's very good about in those moments not taking away from what you need to feel. Um, but typically how it would go for us was he would have me do blood work, and then he would say, "I'll call you in a couple days, and we'll have a consult in two weeks." So he would, like, make sure that he gave us space to feel and grieve before saying, "Okay, here's the rundown, and here's what..." Because most people aren't ready for all of that information in that moment, and he's so good about that. And so

Coping Styles On The Drive Home

16:50

he definitely was like, "Okay, we'll go do blood work, and we'll go from there." And I'm sure he was also spiraling, and for him it was just, like, one step at a time. He's so good about doing that one step at a time, and just making sure that everyone can feel what they need to feel when they need to feel it. Yeah. I know. I think I, I totally agree with that, and I think in my mind, I, how my mind works is I, I don't wanna spiral. So my mind immediately goes to, "Okay, what's, what's my steps?" Yeah. "What do I need to do?" And so I can push all of it away and do it later. Like, so that's, it's very different, you know, h- coping. It is. Yeah. It's coping. 1000%. Coping mechanism. So, so yeah, I think, you know, we went, we left the clinic, we went down, um, or up, um, to do the blood work. Um, it was just an HCG level, so it took less than five minutes. Um, and then we got in the car and just kinda, like, sat there. Prayed. Yes. Yeah, yeah, prayed. Um- And then we talked about our feelings. Yeah, yeah. I was like, "Okay, how are you feeling?" You know, I was like, "I can't talk about my feelings right now." I was like, I, I, I can't. Like, emotionally, whenever I'm in that, that much emotion, I can't talk. If I try to talk, I'm just gonna start crying. Like, there's- there's no in between. Like, my... I just like, I feel like I just feel things really strongly sometimes, and I just can't talk through it. Like- Mm-hmm I either need to cry a lot and then talk to me later, like hours later or the next day. Um, and Matt knows that really well. Like, I, when I'm emotional and he asks me, like, "Are you okay?" Like, I won't answer. Like, I cannot answer. If I answer, I'm starting to cry. So I'm either leaving the room or ignoring it entirely or whatever. It's great. Um, so yeah. Um, we just got on the road, and I remember going into that appointment being like, "I'm so hungry. I'm so excited to like, we're gonna go eat after," and I just wasn't hungry, um, until we got on the road and whatever. And yeah, the ride was, was tough. I just remember thinking of you, and I'm like, "My God, like, she's having to drive right now." I'm like, I, like, I knew how I was feeling. I could imagine how you were feeling, and I felt so terrible that you had to drive. So, um, I understand that, what was going through your mind as far as, like, coping, getting home. You know what I mean? Pushing everything back until later. Um, I also remember, so you sent that text in the group text. Um, I know you were texting John the way home. Um, I didn't really want to text anybody on the way home. I just didn't wanna deal with it yet. Um, I got home, and I remember it was, like, right before Matt had to go pick up the kids, um, from daycare, and it was just kind of like a regular day for Matt, like how he just like, you know, said like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, at that point, like, I just knew he didn't get what we said, like, in our text. Um, and I just told him, like, I told him straight up, and I was like, "It's not happening." I'm like, "It's not, it's not good." And he's like, "Oh." Like, he just kind of like... I don't think it really hit him, you know what I mean? He wasn't there. He didn't get it. He also hadn't been through that situation like John has. So, um, I feel like that was kind of like a disconnect, but through no fault of his own. Um- So, uh, and I'll talk about, I guess, Matt a little bit later too, and how, how we kind of handled stuff.

The Waiting Game For Labs

20:50

But, um, so yeah, I guess after that it was just the waiting game, so another waiting game like usual. Um- So many waiting games. Yes, so- Not even just waiting games, but almost like the waiting game in combination with the spiral game. Yes. You know what I mean? Because in that wait, what are we gonna do? Mm-hmm. We're all fixers. We're all fixers. Yeah. You're a fixer. I'm a fixer. John's a fixer. Matt's a fixer. So, like, in that s- in that time of wait, we're all googling and we're all trying to figure out, you know, all the things when we don't have answers, because we were still waiting on your blood tests. Mm-hmm. We were still, you know, waiting to hear back from the doctor on what the next step would be too. Yeah, so I feel like this was probably my worst spiral time, um- So we got the lab test done. It was probably like 1:00 PM or something Indy time Thursday. Usually when their stats, their labs, their stat, they come back pretty quick. Yeah. I figured, okay, it's gonna be a little delayed because it's in the afternoon. Um, when I still didn't see anything pop up in the morning, um, I was like, I was like, "Come on." I'm like- Mm-hmm like, "Why haven't we seen anything?" And like, first of all, what am I supposed to see? Like- Mm-hmm what level am I supposed to see? 'Cause obviously, not obviously, at this point, we didn't really get if, like, my body knew what was happening or, like, it was oblivious, or my hormone levels were gonna throw everything off. So I had no idea what the number was gonna look like or what to expect. So that was kind of hard, um, just 'cause we were waiting for something we didn't know if it was gonna be good or bad. Um- And I guess I also, on the other hand, like I know when like labs are either not good or like they hold them back sometimes, it's for a reason. So like sometimes they won't release your labs right away if the doctor wants to see them first and then give you the report. So in this case, that was the case. Um, so I forgot, did he call you first or me? You first? Yeah, he called me first. Okay. Yeah, so you wanna talk through like that conversation at first, and then I'll talk through my half? Um, yes. So he called on Friday. I think we had both already sent a message to the portal separately without having communicated that with each other. Again, very us. Yes. Um, so you had messaged them asking about the req- about the labs. I had also messaged them that morning asking about the labs. And then I got the call from Dr. Jarrett, and I almost missed it. I was on my way to a meeting, and I usually for the most part will leave my phone in my office when I go in for meetings. And I just so happened to look back, I think to grab a pen, and I saw that he was calling, and so I am so glad I didn't miss it. But, um- He essentially said that your numbers were 30,000, in that range. And like you said, my first question was, "Is that high? Is that normal? Is that the range it should be in?" I had... At this point, I don't think that I had any hopes for there could still be a chance, because I had already processed the fact that I had heard, "I'm sorry." I had already processed the fact that he had acknowledged that there was no heartbeat. And I remember the previous week when he was looking for the heartbeat, we could see the flicker, but he was already struggling to find it. And so when he called me and he mentioned the hCG level, I don't think a part of me was waiting for, "But there's still a chance." And so he did say he would want you to come back for an ultrasound. And he had said, "I am not second-guessing what I saw on that ultrasound." So he was very frank about that. He said, "I am not second-guessing that at all." He said, "But there has been a lot that you both have invested into this process, and in this process and journey in general, and I never want you to second-guess me as your doctor." He said, "So I don't want to stop her from doing her medicine, and then you wonder if there still was a chance." He's like, "Are you comfortable with her coming back in for an ultrasound?" And he posed the question to me about you, and I'm very weird about that. So I said, "I would, I, I would want her to have another ultrasound, but really it's gonna depend on Haley's availability, and if she's comfortable with that as well." I said, "But yes." And I, and I remember asking, "What is more important, an ultrasound or an hCG?" And he was like, "An ultrasound." And I said, "Okay, can you call Haley?" And he's like, "I'll call her right now." And so he called you, and I'll let you talk on that. But I think I really wanna stress to anyone listening that despite me understanding what the circumstances were, I know that I serve a miraculous God, and so absolutely there was a part of me that was like, science is one thing, but God can change the outcome. And so I wasn't sitting there going, "This is still a 50/50 chance." It wasn't that at all. It was very much this is a 0% chance or a 100% chance. To me, it wasn't a 50/50. It's our current circumstance is that there was no cardiac activity. There was no heartbeat. The only possible outcome of this being a positive outcome would be God actually intervening and it being a miracle, which I know he could do, but I don't expect it, and nor do I need it for my faith. But it was very much in that moment was, okay, if we do do this, I'm not going... I'm not walking into this expecting this, but it is still a possibility, essentially is where my mindset was. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think you said that very, very well. Like, and it's funny, the conversation you said you had with him was, like, word for word like what he said to me. So it was just, like, crazy. Um, so yeah, I, I think inadvertently we both had that same feeling of what if, like- Mm-hmm like, what if? Like, obviously we're, we're in the hole. Like, we are probably the, I don't know, I'm not gonna say most depressed that we've ever been, but, like, it really was a 0% win at that point. Like, we, we had already, you know, thought everything was done. Like, um, I think on my end, I wish he would've just been like, "It's, it's natural for your numbers to be high, like you were pregnant. Like-" Mm-hmm "your body still thinks you're pregnant." And I, I don't blame him at all. I understand him wanting us to feel 100% with what the outcome was, so I, I get that. At the end of the day, I wish he just would've been like, "That's... We're just take another HCG and you can stop your hormones." But I, I am fine with how everything turned out because at the end of the day, so after he had that same conversation with me, I basically told him, I was like, "I don't think emotionally me or Yaya can make that trip." I, like, I, I was just trying to imagine it, and I was like, we're gonna be a mess. Like, making that five-hour trip to Indy, like, I- I did not want to do that. Um, I was like, I- I'm like, "Could I see if I could get an ultrasound here, like around here?" And he's like, "That's a great idea." He's like, "That's, that sounds great." He's like, "If you want to see if you can get an ultrasound Monday or Tuesday, then you can do that." 'Cause it was already late on a Friday, like it was after 1 or 2 PM. Mm-hmm. Um, the likelihood of a regular person, not myself, um, getting into an ultrasound on a Friday afternoon, um, was like almost zero. So, um, he's like, "Yeah, just..." I'm like, "I'll probably still go get an HCG level on Monday just to like see what it is." Um, he's like, "Yeah, that sounds fine, too." And, and then I communicated that with Yaya, and I was like, "Okay, that's the plan." Cue Haley spiral.

Chasing Confirmation With A Local Ultrasound

30:10

So, um, I was at work, so luckily, like I wasn't doing much at that point because I could not have done anything, I don't think. Um, I just remember going to talk to two of my, you know, closer friends there and just kind of about the situation. They kind of already knew, like, that we had the loss. Um, and I was like, "I don't..." I was like, "I don't think I can wait till Monday." I'm like, I... 'Cause at this point, I was like, "Okay, the point of the ultrasound is to get confirmation on what we saw." Like, that's, that's kind of what was going through my head. So, and I was like, "Do you think anyone's up s-" Like, I work in a hospital, so I'm like, "Do you think anyone's up in the OB department?" I'm like, "Maybe I should just go talk to one of the OBs and, like, see what they think," or, like, if someone can get me in quick for an ultrasound. And, like, so I think at that point, I went upstairs with one of my friends, and luckily we just found one of the OB doctors who was about to go do, like, a surgery. Um, I just told him the general- I know. It was just like whatever. Oh, you're headed to a surgery? I've got a question for you. Yes. I was like, I was like, "Okay, hold on. R- weird, weird question. I'm so sorry." Um, but no, he was, he was very blunt. I mean, he was just like, "If your HCG level is 30,000, you're this, you're supposedly this far along, there's 0% chance that you wouldn't see cardiac activity." He's like, "I'm sorry." And I was like, "No, I mean, I'd rather you just give it to me straight. I don't wanna hear anything that's, like, fluffed. Like, I don't. I'd rather just hear it." So I mean, at that point, um, my friend had already, like, contacted one of the nurses who works at the OB office in town, and was like, "Hey, like, are there any ultrasound openings, like, for today? Like, this afternoon?" And she's like, "Yeah, come in at 3:30." I was like, it was, like, 2:45. Mm-hmm. And we had to go to Ottawa, and at this point, I know I was texting you, and, like, it was a lot, and I felt so terrible because I was making these decisions, and it wasn't necessarily just me emotionally in the situation. So I'm sorry about that, and I know I tried to say that, and I don't know if it came out right in our texts. So, um, I just think I, I was going to be very unwell the entire weekend if all of this was going through my mind, and there was no confirmation. Like, I, yeah, I don't know. That's, that was just a really hard day. I think Friday was a really hard day. So I called Matt at 2:45 or, like, 2:30, and I was like, "Hey, I need you to come with me to Ottawa." You know, it's a half, 20 hour dr- 20 minute drive. Um, I was like, "Um, need to leave at 3:00." I'm like, "Can you come with me?" 'Cause I was like, number one, don't wanna go do this by myself either. Um, and yeah, he's like, "Okay." And he came, got me. I was like, "I'm sorry. This is crazy." I'm like, "We just need to, like, we just need a confirmation, like, one way or the other." Um- So I remember getting there, um, went in, just, like, described what the situation was because they didn't necessarily know what was going on, um, 'cause it was, like, wholly last minute stuff, and she's like, "Oh, okay." Um, she's like, "Okay." So she was, like, finally g- like, getting what we were doing. Um, and actually their ultrasound machine was way better. I'm sorry. Mm-hmm. Um, like, luckily we were able to see, like... They could see blood flow, so, like, they had the one that was, like, color, so, like, they basically went, found the yolk sac, found everything, and she's like, "Yeah, it's right here," and then she measured it, and it was six weeks, one day, and she's like, "Oh, you're supposed to be, like, close to eight weeks." I was like, "Yep." And then th- through this whole ultrasound, I think I was fine. I think I w- I was already knowing what the outcome was gonna be. Um, she did, like, the color Doppler or whatever, and she's like, "Yeah," and... Well, she didn't say anything, and then I looked at it and I was like, "There's supposed to be color there." She's like, "Yeah," and there was absolutely nothing. So, um, that was a pretty hard confirmation. Um, and I know it hit Matt pretty hard just seeing that, 'cause I think up until that point he didn't really, like... And I'm sure he can speak to this himself, too, but I'm sure it didn't, like, really hit him until he saw that. So that was a hard drive home. But I don't know, I guess after that I felt, I don't know, not better, but just more set in what the outcome was, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine how hard that would've been for him, i'm glad he was there with you, though. Me too. 'Cause, yeah, it still sucked, but, um, but yeah. I mean, I, I regret that you weren't, um, 'cause I wish you could've seen that. But But yeah, um, I guess how have, um, days been post, well I guess post results today?

The Weekend After The News

35:48

So we got, um, or no, I guess the weekend. We didn't really talk about the weekend. How was your, how was your waiting weekend up until today, I guess? Um So Thursday, we, um, obviously drove back together, um, I got home, and like I said, I... John was on the couch, and I just threw myself on him, and I just started sobbing. I thank Tim for always having to do the drive for us. I was really put into his shoes into I just gotta get us home safely, and then I can process. And he has always, during those drives, been that, in that mindset, i've always known he's the strong one. He has to be strong for us. Um, and so that was probably the first words that came out of my mouth was I just, I thanked him for always being strong for us and always having to drive us during our losses, because I don't think I had ever thanked him for that. I had never, you know, thought about that, so, um, Friday I did not go to work. Um, Basically just laid in bed for most of the morning. He had to go in to do some report or something on Friday morning. So I laid in bed, and I kinda just brain rotted for most of the morning and then I had to go, um, for a car appointment. So that was- The damn car the car appointment from hell, um, a few weeks prior or a week prior, John had already been invited to a concert. So John had already had a guys' night scheduled for Friday night prior to us finding out on Thursday, and I 100% was like, "You need to go to this." Like, "You need this." Um, John processes through his feelings, um, different than myself, and so I know that he would need guy time. I knew I could not be home alone, so I went to the movies, and I distracted myself by watching a scary movie. And, um, Saturday... What did we do Saturday? Saturday we went and saw his dad for adjustments, And, um, from there we went over to Chicago, and we had already had plans to see one of John's, um, favorite podcasters. He's a comedian, Bobby Lee. So we did that. Mm-hmm. And that was good to be completely disconnected from reality. Yeah. And just laugh. And, um, Sunday I ran my 5K in the morning, and my best friends came to that, so that was really nice to see them and, again, feel that support and hug from your people. Sometimes you just need a hug and just an I love you. Yep. And so that was good. I felt like, I felt like, um, God made it possible for, you know, for me to be able to see Nicole and for me to be able to see Steven. And then Sunday night we came back, Sunday afternoon, and we hung out with Andy, Todd, and the kids, and that was honestly when it finally truly hit me. Like I said, I think it hit me on Sunday was because- We have a lot of kids in our life that really love us. And, um, we walked in and Kinsley had drawn John in a softball outfit with a mitt. It was the cutest thing ever. I'm gonna frame it. And so we walked in and I saw it. It said Uncle John I think in that moment it, like, clicked for me that I don't know what the future holds. It's not my job to know that, but we may never come home to one of our kids drawing their dad and so when I saw the picture, I got really emotional and I had to walk away because Just the reality set in that The children in our lives may be the only children that we ever get to be loved on, you know, like Kellen fell asleep on the couch or was attempting to fall asleep, and he was leaning on me, and I was scratching his head. And, um, it's just like moments like that that are just so beautiful. It's just like, it's like simple things like that that most parents see on a day-to-day. It's like a normal night. Mm-hmm. We don't get that, and we may never actually get that kind of life. And so it was just those instances for me it finally clicked, like this is the end of this surrogacy transfer. And the reality is, is that we don't know what that means for us if we're, if we're ever going to be able to do this again or, you know, we haven't had those conversations truly because we haven't even been fully experienced the full loss yet. You know? You're still technically carrying. Mm-hmm. And so we, this, while we're saying, like, this is the end of it, there's still so much that has to happen for this to be even concluded, right? Like, I'm sure we'll talk about what the next steps will be. But, um, there's a lot of unknowns. And so, yeah, Sunday for me was... Well, Thursday was obviously the hardest, but I think Sunday was the hardest for me because, um, John and I had, you know, the conversation, the tough conversation that we probably were avoiding. About finances and, you know, just the reality of this isn't something that we can turn around and just do again in a week. You know, typically for us, for my losses, it was as lo- as soon as my hCG was at a zero, we could discuss a cycle. We could wait on my period or start my period and start another cycle, and, like, the reality is, is that this is a very different situation both because it's someone else, right? It's not me. Mm-hmm. And financially speaking, we've been very open about what this has costed us, um, out of pocket. We're in 15, $16,000 and we don't have that. We didn't have that to begin with. Um, and so, so yeah. So yesterday was probably the hardest day for me. What about you? Mm-hmm. How was your weekend? Um, weekend sucked. Yeah. Weekend sucked too. Um, so yeah- Yeah I talked about my Friday, my Friday spiraling kind of stuff. Um, for me, I just, again, yeah, wanted to stay busy. Um- So Friday night we actually went to a local baseball game. We have, like, a local mid-level team, I don't know, that plays, um, somewhere in between, like, the official and non-official baseball world. I don't know how that works. Um, so yeah, went to a baseball game. That was fun, with the kids, um, and my dad. Um, so it kinda took my mind off stuff for a little bit. Um, Saturday I don't know. Start, just try to stay busy again too. Oh, and I also talked to Andy, was it Friday night when you went to the movie? I think, yeah, yeah. I literally texted Andy when you told me that John was gonna be gone. I was like, "Have you checked on Yaya?" I'm like, "I can't." I'm like, "I can't drive there." I'm like, "And I need to make sure you're not sitting at home," because I could imagine myself sitting at home by myself, and it would not be good either way too. So, um, so yeah, Saturday, um, oh, we had a, me and Gwen had a birthday party to go to in the morning, um, which was hard in itself. You know, kids. Mm-hmm. Um, and then did a couple, you know, running around stuff with the kids, and that. Matt worked Saturday night, so um- I don't know. I just think I avoided a lot of it kind of the whole weekend. Mm-hmm. It's what I do best. Um, I just remember throughout, like even this, this whole weekend plus today, just when it, like something pops up that like I think of it for some reason, or like, I don't know. Um, of course I keep getting like, um, these pop-ups of maternity dresses for bridesmaids. Oh my gosh, it's the worst when stuff like that- Yeah. Yeah. So now, you know, 'cause I was going to pick out a maternity dress for Andy's wedding in October, 'cause I was gonna be very pregnant, and yeah. So I was like, "Oh, cool." Yeah. Like, uh, glad I didn't buy that, I guess. I was just, you know, thinking of all the things that, you know, I didn't do that I was literally on the cusp of doing, like, 'cause we were almost eight weeks. Um, so those times are really hard I think I just pushed it back a lot. Um, also, like, just of course, again, with music, like whenever I hear something that's like slightly emotional, I'm like losing it. Mm. Um, yeah. I think like, you know, people had questions. You know, not, not too many questions, so I can't even say like, you know, it was, I was bombarded with people. I wasn't. Um, it was mostly just like, I don't know. Like, I have the same questions you do. I, I wanna know the answers to that too. Um, so that was kinda just hard. Um- I don't know. I think that was just kind of the weekend, just I remember just getting up this morning and just being tired. Like, I'm still tired, which I think is sucks too, like- Mm my body still thinks I'm pregnant, which sucks. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, we'll kind of talk about that too, so I mean... So what happened?

Missed Miscarriage And Living In Limbo

47:01

I mean, obviously we really don't, you don't know a lot, you don't usually know a lot. Um, all we basically know is baby stopped growing somewhere between six and seven weeks. Honestly can't, um, believe how good I'm keeping it together right now. Um, so ultrasound, um, showed basically just no growth from our first ultrasound to our second. Um, just all I can imagine is that first ultrasound that, like- It, you know, if, if everything was going as it should have, we would have heard a heartbeat. Yeah. Like, all I can think of that first ultrasound is that things weren't good at that first ultrasound really. Yeah. And you, you don't know that. I mean, like, the baby's so small, like, there's always a chance you just can't detect it, so. Yeah. So yeah. Um, that's kind of all we got there. Um, so what kind of miscarriage this is technically, um, so it's technically a missed misc- missed miscarriage. Oh my God. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's a loss of the pregnancy without your body telling you first. So in a lot of miscarriages, you start bleeding. Um, your body just knows that it's not viable, so it's going to stop that, start that process naturally. Um, mine hasn't. Um, from what I can imagine, it's because I'm on all the hormones. Um, you know, it's keeping it there. Um, it'll get it eventually if I probably were to continue on, um, hormones, but, but yeah, I think that's kind of hard. I think it's been hard just, like, knowing I'm still, not still pregnant, but kind of am. Um- I think that's, like, been what's been- Um, the hardest part for me with... For you, if that makes sense. Yep. Like, I can't imagine that feeling of just the uncomfortable The uncomfortableness of that reality, right? Mm-hmm. Because you want to, you want to... Mm, what's the word that I'm looking for? English is my second language, guys. Um, you just want to be done with it. Move on. And, and, and- Yeah you want to be able to process it, and you- Yeah wanna be able to go through it so that you can move forward. Yeah. And in this type of scenario, you technically, like I said, we, we haven't even experienced the full loss yet, because physically, your body still has the baby. Mm. And so that is, that's hard, and I've never experienced that, so- Mm-hmm it's been hard for me because I, I know that You, you still have such a, you still have such a long way to go in the physical aspect of it, and- Mm-hmm I just wanna fast-forward so that you could just be done on the other side of all of this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I, yeah, that's exactly, like, it's almost like you just wanna move on, um, because you know what's happened. Um, so I think that'll be my, my point probably when I get- Mm-hmm the rest of my emotions out. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I have joked at work, like, this past, past week, not this past week, like literally two days I've been at work 'cause it's been the weekend. Um, and honestly, Friday I should've just stayed home, 'cause luckily I was, I just had one meeting in the morning, and then I was in, like, this little closet office area, like, by myself all day, thank God, because if I had to interact with anybody the entire day, I would probably would've lost it. Um- Mm-hmm but that's me. Like, I, unless I'm, I don't know, like, I can't do my job, I'm gonna go to work. Like, I'd rather just be at work, I don't know, doing stuff than sitting at home and, I don't know, crying on the couch. Um- To say it, even less. Um, but I, I think if I were to do it all over again, I would just stay home the day after, 'cause it was really emotionally hard. Um- Yeah 'cause I'm like, you know, people knew. There's some people who just- Mm-hmm like, you know, follow the Facebook stuff and whatever. Um, and I just saw my one friend, and she was just like, "Oh." She's like, "Why the hell are you here?" And she's like, "You want a hug?" And I said, "If you hug me, I'll cry. Go away." Mm-hmm. I, I was just like, "Don't." I'm like, "If you wanna get me emotional, hug me. I will immediately cry. It's not, it's just a thing." Um- I will say, like, that's definitely a, a learned thing, because I remember being at the office during a loss, and Andi at the time worked with me, and she was like, "You need to go home." And she, like, was like, "You should not be here." Yeah. And she, like, got my boss involved, and it's like, I was useless there. Why was I there? Yeah. I was not mentally present. I was- Yeah it's just one of those, like- I don't know. I don't wanna say the workaholic thing, but I think it's just one of those also, like, I just wanna be productive. But, like, are you really being productive? Yeah, I mean, I think it's co- Are you really- it's coping. I mean, you just- Mm-hmm don't wanna think about it, so you wanna think about something else, but your, your brain physically can't think about something else. Yeah, th- exactly. So it's just like your brain goes in cycles of like, "Don't think about it, don't think about it, don't think about it." And it's like that's all you end up thinking about all day. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I think we're alike in that way. Um, and I'm sure there's other people out there like that, so. Um, so yeah, I, I guess the past two days I've been at work I've just found myself, and not so much avoiding people, just like, I don't know, not talking to people or like, Mm-hmm just, like, avoiding eye contact. Mm-hmm. I just don't wanna talk about it, so. Mm-hmm. Luckily I really haven't. Um, it's only come up, like, once in general convo of someone, you know, who, uh, you know, didn't know, and just, you know, was like, "Oh yeah," like, "Congratulations." I was like, "Not pregnant." Oh my gosh. And I was like, and I was like, "That's it." And I was like, "Okay." I was like, "We're just gonna move on." You know, they were- I'm s- obviously they were sorry. It's not their fault. Like, it's, it's just like, it's gonna come up, so it's just gonna be hard. And I- Yeah you've already been through that millions of times, so. Dude, I made the post on Instagram, and it, I forgot to do the share to Facebook. Mm-hmm. And so there's two sets of people, right? Yeah that have us on either/or social media. Mm-hmm. And like you, I realized that I forgot to hit the share button for Facebook. I have been thinking about how I hope I don't run into anyone until this goes live, and like I can make a more formal thing on Facebook, because I don't wanna run into anyone and they're like, "Oh my God, how's it going?" And like- Mm-hmm I have one coworker for instance that only has me on Facebook and not Instagram, and, he's one of the sweetest guys, and so he's friends with Jonathan and has known us for years. And, um, he doesn't know, and I don't want to say the... I don't wanna say it. Um, he hasn't asked or anything, but you know, he ca- he came down today and he like checked in on like, "How was your weekend? How's your day?" And I didn't break the news to him. Mm-hmm. You know, because it's like I don't wanna have the conversation. Yep. Yep. Um, but I was also just like internally cringing, where I was just like, "Please don't ask how the pregnancy is going," because I don't wanna cry. Yes. Um, and so yeah, I didn't. Yeah, it's, like you avoid it. I, yeah. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. You just don't wanna lose it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, yeah. I get it.

Options For Managing The Miscarriage

55:43

Um, so yeah, I guess questions that we've, we've had over the past weekend, um, that's kind of I guess gone through both of our heads. Um, so different ways that you can handle miscarriages. Um, so some are just spontaneous, so you don't have to do anything. Your body just knows what to do, um, in most cases. Um, sometimes you need, uh, medicine to help your body along and figure out how to get rid of that. Um, and then the last is surgical. So, um, usually this isn't, um, a needed option unless you have like re- it's called retained products of conception. So, um, your body has done as much as it can naturally, and it just can't, um- Do the, do the rest of it. So if in that case that happens and you don't get a surgical intervention, you can get an infection and a lot of other bad, um, issues. So, so yeah, um, I guess we had questions about, you know, what does that look like for me? What am I, you know, what do I have to do, um, or not do? So that was kind of, you know, my other part of my spiral the entire weekend. Um, you know, we were, we were talking about, you know, does there certain testing that we need to do. Um, so in that case, would I need the surgical intervention? Um, I've been open to all options, just kind of whatever helps, um, Yaya and John at this point. Like, I've, I've been in the surgical, I work in surgery. I know what a D&C entails. It's, it has its place when needed, so if that is something that needs to happen, um, you know, we'll go from there. But as of now, it's just hopefully going to all happen naturally. Um, I got the go ahead to stop all my hormones today from the doctor. Um, he did call after I sent him my HCG results, which, oh my God, the lab this morning was packed when I got there, so it took me like 20 minutes to get in, um, to do my blood work, which was another great, great thing compared to the last few times. I was like the first person in. Um, anyways, my HCG number was pretty much the same, which I'm personally not surprised. I feel like it's just all the hormones that are just keeping everything status quo. So, um, I'll get another HCG done next Monday, so a week from today. We'll see, um, that number should be decreased. Um- So yeah, I guess, you know, I was wondering, like, you know, when do I stop hormones? What happens after I stop hormones? What should I expect? Um, you know, and luckily, you know, I got some of those answers from the doctor, from the office today. Um, you know, just gave me a couple things to, like, check for, and I know, mem- I remember asking Yaya, I'm pretty sure this was the drive home from the ultrasound. Mm-hmm. I was like, "So what's typical?" I'm like, "What, what usually happens now?" Um, you know, from her losses. So, so yeah. Um, I don't need to take any other medications as of now, so, um, that's good. As of now, no surgery, and, um, yeah. Yeah, as of now we are essentially hoping that by her stopping her medication, her body will process this naturally. Um, that is a whole monster within itself. think that was always my fear is I never wanted you to experience that. And so Yeah, I'm just sorry that you have to experience this. Yeah. It's okay, and I mean, I know we talked about this over, over text. Um, obviously this is, this is a, one of the outcomes that, you know, I kind of prepared myself to expect, so, you know, it's wasn't always 100% wasn't gonna happen. Um, so yeah, um, luckily my work provides, um, bereavement days that cover this as well, so, um, I plan to be at home, um, if that happens, so. So yeah, um, we will handle it and go from there. I'm sure that's when I'll be at my most emotional, but- Mm-hmm you know, this helps, you know, talking through everything and our conversations and communication, so that all, that all hel- helps right now, so. So yeah, um, this definitely ended up lasting a lot longer than I honestly thought we were gonna make an episode of. Um, so as far as, you know, next steps, we, we don't have much for you right now. Um, I kind of anticipate we'll, you know, at least make maybe another episode, you know, in a week or so after things have, you know, calmed down, we have more answers for you, or non-answers for you. I don't know. Um, and, uh, I don't know. I think we really have enjoyed this podcast, and I really hope everyone else has as well. Um, I really don't want it to end, so who knows. You know, it's, it's not the end till it's the end, so a lot of things to happen in between here and in the future, so. Well,

Faith Prayers And An Uncertain Future

1:01:41

sorry everybody for this very depressing episode. Um, we do wanna be as honest as possible. Um, obviously we've said that throughout this entire podcast. Um, we just want everyone to know what's going on, and again, it's just therapeutic for us as well to talk through everything and just be us, so yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, um, I just, you know, thank everyone who has checked in, um, both with Haley and John and myself. Um, I know- For John, it's hitting him Pretty heavy because he has had to weigh the, he has had to, um, wear the burden of, like, the financial side of things for us because he is able to work overtime. And so, and he's like, you know, the financial guy in our relationship. So, um, for him it, it was You know, I asked him, "Has it hit you yet?" And he's like, "Has it hit me that we just lost X amount of money on this attempt?" Mm. And I was just like, I was just like, "So yes?" Um- So it has. Okay. Yeah. All right. Great. Um, yeah, I mean that's- I'm like, "So yes?" Yeah. All right. Got it. Um, so- Oh you know, there's that I don't wanna take away from the emotional side of things. Obviously there's a lot of emotions- No behind that too, but- We need, we need humor. We need humor, so please. Yeah. So, so yes, I just, you know, thank you to everyone who has checked in, and, um, who has sent a prayer during this process. Um, you know, so God has opened doors for us. Yes, it feels like the door gets slammed each time, but He has opened those doors, and He has made us get to the point where, you know, we have been able to even attempt at this. And so I know, I know that there are probably people listening and wondering when is enough enough for us. I've had that sort of conversation already. Um- And I know it's, it doesn't come from an ill place. I think it comes from someone who loves me very much, and it's just, you know, doesn't wanna see me get hurt anymore or, um, John and I to continue to feel loss. And, um, all I can say to that, if anyone's listening and is also wondering, you know, when is enough, enough for us is, um, we don't know. All we can do is just pray, and that is what guides us is God. And again, when, when and if, if and when He opens up a door, we're gonna go through that door if we believe that He is the one opening said door. So, you know, um, that's, that's my response to anyone who may be listening and wondering, like Maybe they should stop, or when are they gonna just stop trying because it's obviously not working? My response is, when God tells us that it's time to stop trying is when we'll stop trying. We don't know right now when that time is, if it's now or not. We're in our prayer mode right now. So we just ask that if you're a praying person, that you just pray for us, for all of us to, see the goodness of God in our day-to-day despite how dark some days may feel. And if you are a praying person, I just pray that or I just ask that you pray for us in this journey and for us to be able to hear God's guidance during these times, because I can tell you that the conversations that we're having are not anything but hard. The conversations in our home right now are conversations that some people never have to have, so Respectfully, keep those comments to yourself, and respectfully, if you're going to say or do anything for us from a loving place, let it just be prayer for us to have discernment to be able to hear when God is guiding us one way or another. And yeah, obviously pray for Haley to have a smooth transition through this and for Her to not become as cynical as John and I have become- through this process. Oh, no. No. We'll, we'll get through it. We will. And I hope, I hope you know John did send me a very funny text, um- Oh, yeah. I know the day of or the day after. I don't know. It was the day of. It was like, oh my God. I just was reading it and I was like, "This is entirely John." Um- Yeah he's like, "Is this too much?" And I'm like, "No, I think she'd appreciate that." So yeah, I thought it was very, very witty. Yes, it was. Very John branded. It was very John, and I think I immediately turned around and asked him. I said, "You're..." I, I can't even remember what I said. It's something about, like, "You're so funny," or whatever, "but really, I hope you're okay." Like, I was like, "I know you don't wanna, like, emotionally tell me how you're doing right now, so I just hope you're okay." So. Yeah. Ugh, yeah. But yeah, I guess that's all for now, folks, so we appreciate everybody. Thank everybody, and you know, whatever comes next, we're here for it. So Thanks for listening, guys We love you.