Episode 6 - The Price Is (Not) Right: Surrogacy Edition

Recorded: May 1st, 2026

A single phone notification can change your whole nervous system. We’re on day nine after transfer, beta test is Monday, and we’re trying to hold two truths at once: we feel calmer than we expected, and we’re still staring down big emotions, big costs, and a lot of unknowns.

We talk through the mental game of the two-week wait. We also get real about pressure from every direction as a gestational carrier and as intended parents: the fear of disappointing people, the vulnerability of waiting for lab results, and how faith and gratitude can keep you steady when the outcome isn’t in your hands.

Then we break down the money. Our cost tracker is already over $14,000 and that’s without capturing every “small” expense like travel, gas, and copays. We compare independent surrogacy versus an agency route, explain why legal contracts matter even when you’re family, and share what we’ve learned about stipends, escrow decisions, insurance hiccups, grants, and creative funding ideas. If you’re researching surrogacy cost, IVF budgeting, or how to financially plan for a gestational carrier journey, this is the candid talk we wish we’d heard earlier.

If this helped, subscribe and share the show with someone navigating IVF or surrogacy.... What question do you want us to answer next?

Transcript

The Surprise Bill Panic

0:00

And then we got the news that like the transfer wasn't gonna be covered and it was like seven K at first. And we're like, oh my gosh. We were all freaking out in the group chat. We're like, oh my God. Like what are we gonna do? And we had just paid the attorneys.

Day Nine Check-In And Calmer Mindset

0:24

Welcome. Welcome, welcome. What's up everybody? Hi everyone. It's us. It's US Wound Service. It's not room service. It's womb Service. Service. What day are we Day nine. How are you doing? You know what, um, when did we talk? I feel like, oh, we did that for that visit. Yeah. Maybe we talked. Yeah. What did we record our last one? Oh, Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. Mm-hmm. So I know Sunday I was feeling like really almost like overwhelmed. And I know I was talking a lot about being like hypersensitive and like, just like thinking about everything I'm doing and not doing. Um, at some point, I feel like a day ago, two days ago, I just felt good. I don't know, it just like, kind of like was a switch. I feel like I just got the idea in my head that like, all right, like my. My body's done this before my body knows what it's doing. And like, I feel like that's been like going through my head for the past few days. So I've felt like a sense of, a little bit of sense of calm. So I feel like I've been doing better. So it's been good. Makes you so happy. Yeah, that's been good. Um, so yeah, hopefully it's all the good vibes that we need. Um, but yeah, otherwise no, no. Um, no other emotional updates from that. Um, PIO shots have been better. I got that little massage gun I told you about and I don't know, for some reason the last few shots have been really good, so we're good there. Let's, oh, it's just been a good week. It's just been, well, not, not week. All right. Okay. It's been a very long week. As we said, the two week wait is forever, but like, I'd say maybe like last three, three-ish days have been, have been really good. Um, so yeah, that's been good. Symptom-wise, I don't think I've been feeling anything normal. Yeah, just normal. Everyone's like, how you feeling? I'm like, normal. Yeah. I used to hate that question. And then I would hate doing the, like where you do the rabbit hole and you start looking at where other people are at at like eight days or nine days, and everyone's like, oh, I've started puking. And then I'm like, why haven't I started puking? No, you haven't. You're not puking from this. Like you, you don't have pregnancy symptoms yet, bro. Like there's no way. Nine days. Come on. Yeah. So I used to get so in my head about that. Yeah. I never had a single symptom. No. Yeah. No, no. I, you know, I mean, honestly, with my other pregnancies, I was never sick anyway, so I feel like. Everything was very like, even keel, like through the per like, first few weeks besides, I remember when I hit maybe like six or eight, I started getting like really tired and I was like, oh my God. I'm like, I'm gonna sleep, like take a nap when I get home from work. Like, I remember I was eating a lot. So those were probably like the only things, but, but yeah. So things are good. That makes me so happy. I love yeah, that you did the mantra, my body has done this before. My body knows how to do this. I've seen, um, a pregnancy mantra like that before. Mm-hmm. And so I'm so happy that you've been doing that and that it's, you know, it's helped and give, given you like that boost of confidence that you need during this time. Mm-hmm. To just relax and calm and, and just know, yeah. Okay. My body has done this. It can do it. Yeah. It's just been a really trust your body. Really weird switch. So we're, we're gonna roll with it. I like it. I love it. I love it. Tell me about, tell

Overstimulation And Breathing Tools

4:15

me about your week. What was like a high and then what's like a low? Mm-hmm. So, Hmm. A high, honestly, I really think it, I don't know if it flipped that, that one warning, was it that you texted me and said that you dreamed about me? Oh, did it flip that day? Maybe. When was that? Now I have to look, so, I don't know. I just like, you know, woke up or saw your text and I was like, oh, like, I don't know. Yeah, it was just like, just like comfy feeling. It was a nice, fuzzy, nice, comfy, comfy, comfy, comfy, fuzzy feeling. Um, I don't know if I have any like specific, hi. It's just, I think finally just getting to that point of like. A little bit of calm. Mm-hmm. I think for the low, it was probably like post three, post two or three maybe. I don't know. It was just, I feel like, like I said, I was getting really in my head and then like the kids were also being very stressful. So I was trying, like, at the same time, not to be stressed out, but like still be connected with everyone. And I remember it was just one day after work and I was sitting on the couch and the kids were just being kids, whatever, playing, like being loud. Like I was totally zoning. Like I, I could just like feel myself like getting so anxious for no reason. And Matt just saw me and he's just like, I forgot what he even offered to do. Like he offered to do. Maybe take the kids outside. I don't know. Like, he offered to do something. I was like, okay, thank you. Like, that's, that's all I needed. Like, I just needed a minute. Like I just needed some time. So I feel like that was a little bit of a low, but I, I get out of it. It's just Yeah. Overwhelmed. Yeah. Overstimulated. Yeah. That happens. Yeah. Especially like in your work, it's, you have to be very, um, focused. Mm-hmm. Because it's very, you know, uh, specific to, you know, what the doctor needs or the surgeon needs and things like that. So like, your brain is constantly going, so I'm sure sometimes you get home and you, you just wanna shut it off. Yep. Nothing has been said that's truer. And I remember, I remember, I think it was maybe four-ish days ago, we just had like a thing at work and I was just like getting super worked up about it. And I was like, this is not what I need right now. I was just standing, I was just standing talking to one of my friends and I was just like, I literally feel my blood pressure like, oh my God. And I just like, I just need to like step away. And I couldn't, like I, it was just something like so stupid and so like just getting me so worked up. And of course like everyone I kept talking to, we were talking about it and I was like, oh my God, this is not helping. So I remember that and I was like, this is the last thing I need to be doing. Like my heart rate should not be skyrocketing right now. This is not good for myself. Yeah. But, but no, that happens. Hit us. I did find that like. When I get into, when I did get into like those episodes, I would like, I think deep breathing really helps me just like getting to like a quiet spot and like taking big, deep breaths and almost like slight meditation. Not really, but that, that really helps a lot. That's pretty cool. Right, because I feel like in a sense, this process is kind of forcing you to, um, figure out those defense mechanisms that work for you mm-hmm. Against, you know, those moments that even after this entire process is done, you'll be able to, you know, go, okay, lemme do everyth breathing exercise. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I don't even remember what it was. I think it was a part of like a Beachbody meditation, something, I don't even know. One of the programs I used to do, it had like a day of relaxation, so it wasn't a workout. And then they did like a meditation part of it. I think it's called square Breathing. I for, I forgot exactly what the whole part of it is, but that just stuck with me and I was like, deep breathing just really helps me. I don't know. Yeah, just, that's awesome. Yeah. So anyways, we're good. I love that you concluded that with a nice big, deep breath. Deep As Matt says, oh my sighing. He's like, why are you sighing? He's like, what's wrong? I said, nothing. I'm like, it makes me feel better to take deep breaths. I love that. Leave me alone. But yeah. Okay. But how about you? I know obviously things are probably about the same. Yeah. How have you been feeling?

Faith, Gratitude, And Pressure

9:21

Um, I have been feeling kind of that same calmness that you mentioned. I think someone asked me recently. How I was going to spend Monday, because typically on beta days, I was very specific about, you know, how I wanted to operate that day. And I definitely wanna ask you about that too. Mm-hmm. During this episode. But, um, and I just, I feel really confident in this, in the fact of like, regardless of the outcome of this, I'm just really just proud of everything that we've been able to accomplish through this process together without, you know, without a guide and just really happy for how much like our relationship has, I don't know, just gotten stronger through this. Mm-hmm. And regardless of the outcome, I'm not going to feel like. Angry with God or anything like that, I'm just going to take it as just, you know, it didn't work this time and it might work next time. And so I'm really trying to have that mindset of just trusting God and just trusting his timing and just being thankful for this opportunity with you, you know? Mm-hmm. Regardless of what Monday is. And then regardless of, you know, if it's a positive test, regardless of what that second test is, I'm just, I'm just going into this very, just thankful for how far we've, we've gotten through this and, and how, just how strong we've gotten, we've gotten from all of this. Mm-hmm. I feel like the four of us have gotten really close. Um, yeah. I think the closest we've ever been, and I obviously I love that for us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. I, I, I feel that so like wholeheartedly. I really do. Um, you just have such faith and it's so, it's, I don't know even how to describe it. It's like you just bring the hope wherever you go, and that's, if anything, that's amazing. It's amazing thing. It's amazing skill. It's an amazing virtue. So, I don't know, babe. I love you. Love you too. Don't make me cry. No cry. Here we go. I kind of mentioned how, I don't really feel like that pressure. What is it like for you as, you know, the person doing this for someone? Is there a. A sense of pressure or a sense of burden, um, mm-hmm. That you're feeling or have felt, especially as we get closer to our first pregnancy test, our first beta test on Monday, for sure. Um, I think I have always felt a sense of pressure with this whole situation just because it's not, it's not just me and Matt, you know what I mean? What I, who I'd be letting down, you know, if things didn't go, go right. It's all four of us. It's everyone who's listening. It's, you know, it's, it's a lot of disappointment, which I could, I know you've felt in the past. Um, so yeah, I, I think just thinking of like everything that could. Could go wrong and like if, you know, if Monday doesn't work out, like how I'll feel if I have to tell you that and like how I'll feel if, you know, if something happens before that or after that, that's, you know, a negative. I think that's, that's a lot. Um, yeah, I think at the end of the day, like you said, we have, we have good communication, we have good relationship, so we'll get through it one way or another. Um, obviously I just hope we don't get to that point, but, but yeah, stress stressed

Beta Day Plans And Waiting For Results

13:46

about, you know, the, the result we might have. Um, Monday, I'm just hoping to go right in and get the first walk-in appointment. Um, you know, the first walk-in, walk-in time slots, um, to get that blood drawn. Um, I don't know. I toyed, I toyed around with going right after the Walgreens and getting a pregnancy test. Um, I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of up in the air. I do, I do have a work thing at like 11, so at least I won't for the whole day, just like be sitting at home. So I think I'll be slightly a little distracted, but yeah, I mean, just trying to trust the process and believe in the good. I wanna touch on a few things that you said. Yeah. Um, one of the first things that you said is the, the fear of disappointing. Um, not just Matt, but it would be four of us. It would be, you know, anyone listening or friends, family. Um, I've been there. So I know exactly what you're saying, and I know what I'm about to say is easier said than done, but I want you to know that you wouldn't be disappointing us. You wouldn't be disappointing anyone. You, you wouldn't be at fault. You have done, have, have done nothing wrong. Um, and so I know that that's easier said than done. Mm-hmm. Because I have heard that and I'm like, you know, I still felt, I still felt like I was disappointing everyone every time I would say, yeah, I were pregnant and then have to turn around and go, we're no longer pregnant. Like, I always felt like I was disappointing people. Um, and I, I just, I know that that feeling is, is, uh, is gonna happen. But I, I want you to know that I will never think that you have let me down in any way. If anything bad ever does happen, and obviously we don't wanna be in that mindset, right? Mm-hmm. Someone's probably listening to this and they're like, why are they being so negative? I know, but it's just the reality. But I want you to know, I I will never, I will never be disappointed in you, ever. Thanks, babe. And I mean, I feel that I do, I do with ev you know, every step of this. And I love you too. We'll, we'll get it. We'll, we'll keep staying positive and hopeful. It's all the best we can do now second thing I wanted to touch on. Mm-hmm. If you go get a pregnancy test Yeah. Right after you do your beta test, I won't be mad. Uh, you can't be mad. Oh. So I don't know. I, I might, yeah, I might just, because like, I don't know, it's just like the, not the nostalgia, but just like, you gotta get a pregnancy test at one some point. It can't just, you can't just have the blood test. Like, I don't know. I, I plan on just being on the phone with you all day. So that'll work. That'll work. So what are you not going to work that day? What are you doing Monday? I definitely won't take off. So how it's worked for me in the past is I would go be the very first person there, just like you have said that you plan on doing. Mm-hmm. And then I wouldn't get the results in my portal from, I would go to Christie clinic. I wouldn't get the results there for hours, and sometimes I didn't get them at all. My doctor would get them first. So it just kind of depends on the clinic, whether your clinic will upload them to your portal. Then you get a call from the nurse or if you don't see anything, and then the nurse calls. And typically that call comes in in the afternoon when they start reviewing things. And that is, that drives, that drives everyone nuts. Um, so no, I'll definitely go to work. I will just be praying a lot and thinking about you a lot and yeah. What about you? You're gonna work, you have a thing at 11 you said? Uh, yes. Yes. I have a work thing at 11. Um, other than that, I don't plan on having, like I took off work, I just wanted to go in for that one thing, so, so yeah. No big plans for that day, so we'll see. But obviously if you do a pregnancy test, you'll call me, right? Yeah. I would probably literally video chat you and be like, yo, I got that shit. Um, I'm, I'm good to wait the three minutes with you on a video call too. Ooh, I like that. I do. Yeah, I do. I like that. Okay. That might be the, the go-to move here. Okay. Sweet. I love it. Oh my God. I remember, um, with one of, I think it was with Grayson. I don't know. I forgot which one now. Uh, it was like one week, maybe a week and a half. Like I think it was around probably at this timing. I took a pregnancy test at home for some reason. I don't know why, and it turned out positive and that I immediately like. Went, made an appointment or whatever, and like they got me in like a couple days after just to like do a confirmation and then it did not show up on their pregnancy test. And I was like, I was like freaking out. And they were like, well, it's still early. And they were doing the calculation. They're like, you would be less than two weeks. Like, it's very unlikely that it would show up. And I'm like, well, it did, it did. I'm telling you it did. So it was like that, that waiting between like that test and then the next, I was like, oh my God, am angry or am I not? Like it was, yeah, a little bit of that feeling. That's gotta be so stressful and almost scary because you get your hopes up and then you're literally just in limbo, like this whole situation. But yes, yes, totally, totally hate that feeling. And I know you do too. Yes. Ah. But, but yeah, so I think, you know, when I get those blood tests, like I would definitely, like, I have been take screenshots and be like, yeah, luck. Cool. So exciting. That's the plan. So what about, alright, so I guess my follow up is mm-hmm.

Who To Tell And Managing Texts

20:28

On Monday, um, once we get results, whether positive or negative, um, who are your people that you would want to know on Monday? So, for instance, for me, the very first time I went for a beta test. I got like a hundred text messages by 9:00 AM Yep. How did it go? How did it go? And I'm like, I have no idea. I'm not gonna know until end of day probably. And then after that, I started to basically say, please don't contact me on beta day one. I will, you know, contact people and or post once I'm ready. Because again, it gets very overwhelming. Do you not plan on, you know, telling anyone until, you know, potentially Wednesday's numbers or, you know, do you already plan on telling like, mom, or like, what's, what's your plan in terms of that? Or maybe you haven't even thought about that. Yeah, I mean, from my standpoint, I feel okay with sharing, you know, those first results. I know. Just because everyone wants to know. Like, I, I totally get that and I think I'm just taking this whole journey, like a step at a time. So I do want to, you know, number one enjoy the successes, you know? Um mm-hmm. Celebrate the little things is I love that, what we say a lot. So I think yes, I would, I definitely plan on sharing, you know, numbers and Totally. Okay. If, you know you want to share numbers on your IVF page, um, that's fine with me. I think, you know, my short list for sure, like obviously my parents. Like really wanna know obviously how everything's going. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I have two other close friends around here that we all have a group chat, so a hundred percent it's going in that like right away. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's kind of the short list. Otherwise I, I'd be fine with, you know, sharing with people and, you know, whoever, whoever wants to text, go for it. If I know, I know. Um, obviously I won't know till later in the day, so if you could hold those texts for a while, that'd be great. 'cause Of course, of course. I will not have an answer for you, so I'll just be like, well, still waiting, you know. But, um, but yeah, I think since it is my first time going through this, I. Yeah, I'm, I'm fine with the sharing, totally fine with the sharing. I, I get where it can get exhausting, you know, doing it once, twice, three times, four times, you know, where you're like, I can't, like, I can't emotionally put, put myself in other people's anxiety almost. Mm-hmm. So if anyone is listening to this on Monday, now, you know, now you know. Oh yeah. Are you gonna get this posted Monday? Yeah. The goal is to find my laptop from now until Sunday and then edit this? No. And then we could post it Monday morning. Monday's episode was a late post, and that was only because we recorded Sunday night. Mm-hmm. And. I wasn't able to finish the editing when I was on lunch on Monday and then we had tornadoes, so, um, it was a late one, but this one should be, this one should be good. Yeah. A hundred percent. So shall we get to the big topic?

Money Talk And The 14K Tracker

24:03

Let's do it. Okay. The fun stuff. Dot dot don. Uh, money. How much does all of this cost us? A lot. A lot. And Yaya, Yaya can literally speak to this because, oh my god, the most expensive baby on the planet is Yes. Is going to be here. Yeah. Yes. So we started a tracker pretty early on. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that that was the best plan of action, um, just because we were able to really track. Even the things that we didn't expect that we would need to pay, so on our tracker, a few things that we have on there as lines of expenses or as expense line items are clinic costs. We've got our, um, the counseling thing that we needed to get. Mm-hmm. Any lawyer fees we've got, any, uh, doctor appointments that Haley needed to get done, um, and her meds, things like that. As of right now, I'm just gonna say the number, my God, I didn't even look at the bottom 14. Yeah, the total's at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Over 14 k. Nice little formula. Yeah. Over 14 K. And we're literally two weeks in and we're talking about, yeah. Not only that, but we're also talking about like an independent surrogacy route where mm-hmm. We, we pay Hailey a monthly stipend, um, for her to be able to like cover, you know, like food and, you know, just as like for her to be able to do the things that you would need to do when you're pregnant. 'cause you know, you change things, you change the way you eat, you, you know, take prenatals, things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, so we have that, but. It's not like if we were going through an agency, and again, with an agency, they're expecting 150 K, but even then, right, because this is what I would consider a very affordable surrogacy journey. It is still over $14,000 that we have invested into this process already. And that's insane. Yeah. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. So like when we're talking about that stuff, like, so when we were talking about that agency versus independent, like there are still fees. You can't, like, can't get around. So like we were talking about, if you're a nice person like Yaya and John, um, you will pay your surrogate something so that they're able to, you know, cover, like Yaa was saying, I am trying to eat slightly healthier than the norm. So that does cost more, as everyone knows. Mm-hmm. If I need any, like clothing, you know, I do have a lot for my previous pregnancies, but. You know, never know what I have and what I need. Um, also like any copays or like things that my, you know, like little stuff that's not included with my insurance, like I'll use that stipend for, 'cause they're usually like small fees, like easy to cover there. Um, but yeah, otherwise obviously legal contracts, we'll get into that on another episode. But that those both cost money and, um, yeah, insurance, which I don't know if we even wanna touch on that, this episode because that is a whole thing in itself. Yeah, I would say let's make that its own seriously. For sure. Seriously. Seriously. So, yeah, things you just can't get around. And yes, there's a huge list of those unexpected costs that, you know, insurance doesn't cover at the last moment. And just like coordinating of that stuff is really difficult. Um. Just because it is two different people, you know, it's mm-hmm. It's, it's really weird, um, to think about it from an insurance standpoint. But, um, other things that you need to think about for that independent surrogacy for costs is, you know, if the surrogate has to take off work, um, you know, they're losing, they're losing money there. Um, if we have any complications. So that's something that hopefully, you know, we will not experience, but, you know, if I, if I have any complications with this pregnancy or, you know, have to take time off because of other reasons, um, and then therapy or counseling, but hey, we're doing that for free right here. Fall free. Fall free. That's so funny. Oh, yeah. With all of that in mind. Obviously we're going the non-agency route. Mm-hmm. There are risks of going independent. Mm-hmm. So, Haley, do you wanna touch on some of those? Oh, I would love to. Yes. Um, so obviously, you know, if you're not going through an agency that's coordinating everything, there's no safety net. So, you know, you're taking a lot of the risk of the situation all upon yourself. You know, if the circuit doesn't do something or if you,

Stipends, Hidden Costs, And Insurance Hiccups

29:25

you know, I mean, I'm sure there's scams out there, I couldn't even believe, like start to even imagine that, um, you know, if you don't get everything covered in your. If your legal contracts, you could definitely, you know, get kind of screwed over there. Um, if you're trying to manage all those payment plans or things yourself, where you're not setting, setting aside all of that money upfront, that's also a risk. And I think something that we can kind of touch on is, you know, emotional decisions that impact financial ones. So in our situation, I think that kind of has a place, um, I know obviously we are sisters-in-law, so I myself am a people pleaser, so I don't like confrontation. Um, to start with. So I think when we were talking about contract things, I mean like fees, I was slightly uncomfortable talking about that just because I was like, I. It feels almost to the point where you're like, I don't wanna ask someone to like carry my baby. I also don't wanna ask someone to like pay me to carry their baby like that. Just, yeah. It's just like such a weird, a weird transaction. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember the conversation, our very first conversation at that one breakfast spot. Mm-hmm. And I had printed a series of questions. Thank you. Chat, GPT on things to ask someone who is first offering to be a gestational carrier. So a bunch of questions of like, we need to, we need to make sure that we're on the same page about all of these. Yeah. It was about 20 to 30 questions and one of them was compensation, and I remember. When we got to that question, I was so nervous. Not nervous in the sense of what number you might throw out, but more so just like you said that that awkward conversation of mm-hmm. So how much are you expecting for this? And Right. Yeah, I remember, and I a hundred percent finally talked about it, and you and Matt were like nothing. And Jonathan and I were like, well, that's not comfortable for us. We have to give you something because like, this just doesn't feel right. You can, you can pay me in hugs, pay me hugs and pieces. Yeah. I remember you guys were like, nothing. And we were just like, no, inflation is real. Inflation is real. Oh my God. But at the end of the day, that's where like we were talking about the emotional. The emotions have a huge place in this for 1000%. Yeah. And you know, 'cause if we were going through an agency, the agency would be like, here's the fee. Yeah. Boom. That's just what it is. Exactly. Exactly. So something we do get around with this, we don't have to pay that agency fee, thank God. Um, yeah. But, but yeah, I think, you know, definitely if you're going the route of independent, you really, you know, whatever that relationship looks like to you. You know, if it is family, if it is friends, I think going into it maybe as a surrogate, just realizing that your time is worth something. You know, like there are things that can go wrong. There are things that necessarily, you know, I don't know, like, I think when I was talking to my, um, lawyer, he. He was like, oh, there's a lot of things that like aren't covered in this. Like these are things that you should consider. Like these are things. And I was like, okay. Like yeah, those are things like I should consider, but at the end of the day, I know, I know I would get through that and I know that, you know, things would get covered and I, I don't want to already deplete you guys who have spent so much towards this process towards IVF for the past few years, and you still at the end of the day, like, have to take home a baby and then have money for that. So, I mean, I don't me to stress you out and like, but I remember, I just remember that feeling of gearing up for a baby and just being like, oh my God, there's, there's so much. There's so much stuff. Yeah. And there's, there's just so much to prepare for and there's, you know, obviously children are not cheap, as you've have already figured out way too early in your process. So, so yeah, I, at the end of the day, family does what we need to and want to for each other, and I wholeheartedly believe that, and I wholeheartedly believe in good acts, and this is where mine mind sits. So, so, yeah. Um, yeah, I think you, you made, you made such a, a good point in this in the sense of like when the attorneys, because we both went through, um, attorneys who specialize in surrogacy. Mm-hmm. And so they are reading this with a fine tooth comb. They're reading the contract and, well, ours, ours was writing up the contract, um, and they're used to doing this for strangers. So they're used to a lot of items on there to protect the surrogate. Not that ours isn't, but there's a lot of things to protect the integrity of the entire process and mm-hmm. You know, because at the end of the day you don't, like Haley mentioned in the beginning, sometimes people are just sus and so if someone gives you word that they're gonna give you X amount every month and let's not put it in a contract, you're not gonna do that. So, mm-hmm. Um, it's their job to make sure that the contract is bulletproof and it has everything to make sure that there is no scamming involved from either party. Mm-hmm. And so when we were drafting our contract, I remember he, he has like a template, like, okay, are we adding this? Are we not adding this? And on our end, you know, like one of them was that. Um, once Haley reaches a certain pregnancy week, she, it's advised that she shouldn't leave the state because if she leaves the state and she has an early, like an early pregnancy, if she were to go into labor early, no other state will recognize that she's a gestational carrier and that that baby would be my birth baby. Right? Whereas in, in the state of Illinois, once Haley reaches 10 weeks of her pregnancy, our attorney will then submit documents to the state, basically saying that the moment Hailey goes into labor, that baby is legally our child. And so he was saying like, it's week, let's, I don't even remember which week it was, but he's like, it's this week. Um, and he's like, I would advise to go sooner than that, and I. I was like, well, why would we go sooner? And he's like, it's just better safe than sorry. You just, it just makes sure that they don't leave the state, you know? Um, and it keeps you in more control. And I'm like, well, Haley's mom sometimes does, you know, an Aruba trip and what if Haley wants to go on an Aruba trip as a honey? Like, not as a honeymoon, as a babymoon. And so I'm like, doing the weeks, and he's like, and then the attorney's just like, um, and I was just like, well, let's just, let's just do the mandatory one. Like what is the most, like the mandatory week one? Because I don't need to tell you, you can't go on a trip and then once he, once Jonathan and I. Established with him, okay, this is family, this is Jonathan's like, this is my brother, this is his wife. Like whatever she ends up needing, we're going to do, whether it's in this or not, like whether it's in the contract or not. And he's like, okay, that's fine. But I would need her attorney to understand that. So I, I agree with you where it's like, family's gonna do whatever we need to do. So hypothetically speaking, just for anyone that's listening and going into this type of thing, I think it really helps when you are doing this process with someone that you love and respect mutually. Right? Because the fact of the matter is, is that if for whatever reason our monthly stipend needed to increase to cover real costs and real just costs that like we're all communicating about, mm-hmm. Jonathan and I would not second guess that. You know what I mean? And so I think you guys also have that sort of faith in us in knowing that if anything. Is out of the norm or we didn't plan for something, yay. And John are gonna make sure that that's taken care of. And I think that for anyone who's looking into going independent, if it comes to like choosing an individual that has offered to do this, I think that part is, and I, I wouldn't have known this early on, but I would say that that part is so important, right? Is to go into this with someone that you have that mutual level of, um, trust. Because if not, then I would say yeah, maybe it would be wiser to have more of a bulletproof contract. Um, just to make sure that, that, that both parties are always gonna be taken care of in that sense because we have the luxury and the blessing that we are family and we both parties, uh, trust each other wholeheartedly in the fact that we're gonna do whatever we need to do for one another and make sure that the other is good. Mm-hmm. No, I 100% agree and I, I didn't even speak to this, but I know our, um, we didn't even like touch on travel 'cause obviously traveling to Indiana is not a short trip. Um, so, and a lot of, a lot of these small things, at least for me, like I didn't add on the tracker, probably should have just for some like, accuracy on that. But that 14 k is definitely a little more, more than 14 K at this point. Um, you know, with like say I went and got, I got breakfast when I was up there, or like, I, you know, gas right now is like a $60 round trip. You may be more like mm-hmm. So there's things that aren't included just because for me it's included already in my stipend. So I'm good. Like, I'm not gonna list out those little things, but you know. Maybe I should for the, for everyone out there, just so it's realistic But, but yeah, so there's just a lot of little unexpected things that you don't, don't think about when you're, when you're making your budget. So definitely use, use anything out there. Like I said, I know Yaya said that she'll post kind of like a template or maybe ours, I don't know if she's sharing that much info. Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, A lot of the unexpected that also happened were insurance hiccups, which we won't get into the down and dirty, but something just weren't covered. Um, which unfortunately happens in this situation. Um. So tidbit, make sure you really check into each of your insurances on everything, and we'll give some specifics on that in our insurance episode. But like, it didn't, my insurance didn't cover some of the medications. Um, uh, my insurance didn't cover anything for the transfer or anything like that, and I don't believe Yayas could. So, um, yeah, so do you wanna talk to, um, about escrow? I believe you kind of talked with your lawyer a little bit about that. Yes. So, um, one thing that's part of the contract is putting money in escrow for the process. So like Haley stipend for instance, instead of it being a stipend, there would be an escrow set up. Um, the reason why our attorney, um, said like was against it was because it would get taxed and he's like. Would it be better to just basically pay her under the table, quote unquote, under the table, and then that way it's not being taxed and it's just you are actually giving her that full amount. And so we decided against it. So our, our contract, um, doesn't have anything like in escrow or like a money, uh, pot somewhere for the process. We just do monthly actual direct. We actually do direct deposits, um, to, uh, Haley. We have like a shared account. A shared bank account? Yes. Could you, could you imagine the Venmos. Oh my gosh. No, thank you. So, so yeah, this is why it makes it a lot easier if you are related to the people. So, so yeah, we were able to do a joint account, which makes that a lot easier. Um, and then also I got added to a credit card, which I still have this use, which you almost lost. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Um, but it, it's still safe and it's safe, I promise everyone. Um, but yeah, so that kind of makes it a little easier. If there's anything unexpected, um, you know, that's a little more than I am expecting to pay, then I can, you know, get it covered with that. So that, that kind of eases our process here. But, um, yeah. What about grants? Are there actual grants out there? Yeah,

Contracts, Travel Rules, And Trust

43:22

so there's a few grants or just like financing options that are. Available to people. So there are grants, depending on your state for surrogacy, um, typically have to like write an essay and then of course, like see if you get chosen for the grant. Um, there are also different methods to fund your surrogacy journey. There's GoFundMe, there's um, you know, uh, you can do a charity event essentially. Um, I saw someone years ago who had a golfing event and they basically fundraised through this golfing event that they hosted for their surrogacy journey. So there are creative ways to do this even if you don't have. Let's say 14 K in the bank account, because we did not at the, at, at, when we started doing this, we, um, had savings that we had, but then, um, there was a few times where Jonathan's like, guess I'm working a lot of overtime. Um, so yeah, gotta gotta build the buffer. Yeah, you gotta build the buffer. And there will be times where you think that, you know, okay, we're in a really cush spot. We've got all of the finances figured out. Let's spend our buffer because we don't necessarily need it for the, for, for the, for the cost of the surrogacy process. The answer is don't spend that money. Um, Jonathan is very responsible. I'm not, I'm not even lying. Jonathan is the most financial, financially responsible person I have ever met in my entire life, and. We are the, he, he, I'm not gonna say we, he is the type of person that lists out any expenses that we foresee for the rest of the year. And at the start of most years, we'll sit down, we'll talk about our income, our individual income, what expenses we have, what monthly expenses. Our finances are separate. So that's, ooh, I know. Crazy topic. But Jonathan and I, we've always had separate finances. We sit down, what, what's our, what's our, what are we receiving, um, what's our, like monthly income, what are our personal bills, and then what are our joint bills? And so we do this, activity. And then he foresees all of our expenses for the year. So pretty early on July, 2025 when we first started this process. And. We thought insurance was gonna cover everything, not just assumed we were told. Um, and we'll get into that. Like we've said, I know you guys are just sitting at the edge of your seats just waiting to talk about insurance. Um, but we mapped it all out. And so we started our buffer, we started our savings, and we got to the point where we were like, oh, we can spend a little bit on this or that, or we can, um, we can breathe because we ha we know that this is now covered. Right? Like, everything that we would be doing towards the surrogacy process was covered. Um, and then like Haley said, there were just unexpected things that popped up. And, um, again, the insurance thing was a big one, but the, the reality is, is that if you're going through the surrogacy process and you do have that buffer, and you get to the point where you're like, oh, I think we're good. We can probably spend some of this. The answer is don't spend it. I promise you. Don't spend it. Don't spend it until you have a baby at home, because there will be things that will pop up and you're gonna go, holy crap. What are we gonna do? We've depleted our savings. Totally. And I was from scratch, so. Totally. Yes. I can't stress that enough. Yes. And I, it's so funny hearing you talk about, um, finances with John just because, oh my god, Matt and John are for sure brothers, like, I like There is, there is nothing more similar between them than finances. I swear. Like he, Matt is the exact same. He's, he's very, very conscious about everything, you know, that we're, we're spending. You know, maybe except when it comes to his truck that he likes to buy. Um, but, but he, you know what I mean? Um, he, they both are very financially responsible, which I appreciate because No, I cannot budget. I, I'm the worst Oh, high twin. I know, right? We are the exact same people. Um, yeah. We still, we still have, you know, separate accounts, you know, with one joint for bills and it's just, yeah. So we're the same. We're the same. Um, yeah. But, but yeah, I for sure know that it's, um, it has to do with. The way that they were parented. Yes. Um, because Jonathan, the moment he spends a single dollar, a dime a quarter, he pulls out his app and he tracks it. And I asked him the other day, actually, I'm like, where did you learn that habit? Because it doesn't, it it's, it's such a habit. He's like, my dad. My dad actually does this old school. He, uh, he writes it down still and I'm like, he writes every expense. And he's like, yeah, he writes every expense. That's how he tracks how much he spent and that that's how he knows how much he has. Yeah. And I'm just like, here I am. I just pull up my app and I'm like, do I got enough to spend on this? Okay, I do. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just like, you know, my, my bank, my bank app, not a tracking app. My bank girl. I have never felt like the same person in

Escrow Decisions And Shared Accounts

49:05

all my life. I swear to God, we, it is so funny because, okay, so my mom also does the, you know. Checks and balances. She has her checkbook and she literally has the, she go like, it's like a monthly thing. And, hi mom, I know I'm talking about you, but she, she literally says, I added my bills and she has all her receipts. She saves everything. It's, she goes to her desk, she writes it down, she makes sure everything balances out. And I'm like, yep, I did not get that from you. Not one bit. Nope, not one bit at all. I look at my bank statement when I pay for something and I'm like, mm, I'm fine. Good. That's so funny. I don't factor in any bills. I'm like, oh, okay. It looks okay for now. It'll be fine. Um, but yeah, that's what savings that, what, that's what savings buildup is for. And that's, that's what I lean on pretty heavily. So we'll go with it from there. But, um, yeah. Oh, number two. Number two, the thing that I really wanna talk about, um. With the unexpected. I know when we were think talking about things that weren't covered, I remember the day where we were getting all the green lights, like we were good. Our process was, you know, further, you know, working further in the process. And then we got the news that like the transfer wasn't gonna be covered and it was like seven K at first. And we're like, oh my gosh. We were all freaking out in the group chat. We're like, oh my God. Like what are we gonna do? And we had just paid the attorneys. Mine was, mine was 25. I think yours was more, 'cause he wrote up the entire thing. Yeah. So we had just spent. At least 5K on our attorneys. Yes, yes. And we we were all feeling so good about like, okay, that's the last big expense. And then a week later the clinic was like, good to go, but we need seven K and I, oh my gosh. I was so terrified of telling Jonathan I knew that he was going to flip. Yeah. When he, he's like, I did not, he's like, I did not budget for this in my checks imbalances. This is not, this is not in my yearly budget. This is not in the app. This is not the app. I cannot function. I love you, John. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, at the end of the day, tips, tips, what we wish, what we wish we knew and we, what we hope, you know. Um, if you go into this process, make sure you get a really good attorney that does this all the time. They will teach you a lot. Make sure you think about everything that you need to be thinking about, especially money-wise. Um, you know, making sure that everything is spelled out. You have really good insurance coverage and get that early. So obviously the best time to plan for that is in January when hopefully almost everyone has open enrollment and really ask those hard questions. Hopefully we can get some good questions to ask in our insurance episode. Okay, and lastly. Build the buffer. Build the buffer guys. Make sure you got that buffer fund. Get that good savings. That is just for your surrogacy. Just for the IVF. Uh, you guys know that more than anything? Yeah. Yeah. So. That's, that's all I got guys. I really liked that. That was good. But yeah, you snapped just now with the recap of things and encouragement and tips. I was listening and I'm like, yes girl, go ahead. That sounded so good, girl. Hey yo girl. If anyone needs to hire Hailey for an infomercial, let me know. I have the perfect choice. I'm accepting all of those funds. This will be the personal GoFundMe. Yeah, exactly. You'll get a service out of it. It won't be for free. Yeah. Alright guys, well, I love you all.

Grants, Fundraising, And Building A Buffer

52:58

This is another night, late night episode for us, and we hope. To have some really great news for you. I do wanna just give a huge thank you to everyone who has been listening and has provided feedback. I just wanna say thank you so much for providing that for us, because for us, this, as we've mentioned, feels very therapeutic for us. If you guys haven't noticed, this is when we have our real, our real one-on-ones, our real roundup, and we have these conversations and they're very personal and they're very raw. And I'm really happy that you guys are listening, but also just letting us know, you know, what things have really stuck out to you that you'd learn you'd love to learn more about. Because, um, you know, I wanna make sure that this does become a resource for other people someday who are maybe In IVF for the first time or mm-hmm. Interested in potentially going into surrogacy. I hope that this someday does become a resource for people outside of our circle. So I just wanted to say thank you to anyone who has reached out to me and shared those thoughts with me. I love you guys and I'm just so happy that, um, these have resonated with you guys in that you have enjoyed listening to our journey so far. Mm-hmm. And yeah, just thank you for listening 'cause it's, it's really cool to share this journey, um, week by week with the people closest to us. Yes. Yes. 100% agree with all Yaya said. I also appreciate everyone who's reached out and said that you're listening 'cause that means a lot. Um, so also wanna put that plug in there? Uh, hopefully we'll get a little like, um. Thing put out that's like, Hey, send us your questions 'cause we really wanna know what you want us to talk about too. So, uh, we'll get that posted somewhere and hopefully you'll, you'll put in some ideas if you have any burning questions or topics you want us to talk about. But we love you all. Subscribe, follow all the things, uh, give us the best wishes. It is a big week coming up and we'll be here hoping, yes. Love you guys. Please pray for Hailey and her body. And just for all of us to just have the, um, the mindset that God's timing is everything and that, um, whatever the results are on Monday are ordained by him already. And yeah, just give us the, the heart to be able to just be happy and content with whatever the results are. I am Zen. Zen, Zen. Love you guys. Love you. Thank you for listening. Bye bye. Love you.