Womb Service

Episode 2 - Womb for Rent

• Womb Service • Season 1 • Episode 2

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 54:39

Recorded: April 11th, 2026

We break down independent surrogacy versus agency surrogacy, including what it costs, what it demands, and why we chose the path we’re on. We also get honest about infertility grief, control, trust, and what it takes to prep a gestational carrier for a transfer. 


0:00 - Welcome And Quick Check-In

1:20 - Emotions, Estrogen, And Side Effects

5:20 - Agency Versus Independent Surrogacy

10:30 - The Real Price Of Surrogacy

14:40 - Choosing Parenthood Over Pregnancy

24:20 - Surrogate Qualifications And Trust

32:30 - Haley’s Concerns And Family Logistics

41:40 - Surrogacy Myths And How Transfers Work

43:15 - Transfer Prep Appointments And Lab Work

48:25 - Long Drives To The Fertility Clinic

49:35 - IVF Trauma, Anxiety, And Control

51:20 - Key Takeaways And Next Week Tease


If there's any way for you to click follow us, subscribe us, whatever that looks like, do it, do that!


@fromivftosurrogacy on IG

Welcome And Quick Check-In

SPEAKER_02

Hi, I'm Yaya. And I'm Haley. And this is room service.

SPEAKER_00

So let's talk about the world's craziest group project, Segacy. How's it going?

SPEAKER_02

It's going well. It's Saturday and Want. Um, I know you mentioned it right before we started recording, but it's beautiful outside. So nice. And oh, it just made entire mood so much better. Everyone's outside working in their yards. The sun's out. It's only 57 degrees, but I swear it feels like a good 72.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it definitely feels way warmer. I just wish it was sunnier, but I'll take it. We'll take it, right? It's supposed to be like 80s. Yeah.

Emotions, Estrogen, And Side Effects

SPEAKER_00

Next week, right? Yeah. So excited for that. I can't wait. Excited for that. But yeah, it definitely makes you feel better mentally. I think just getting out of those winter months and all that. But good. But good. Overall, how are you emotionally with all the process going?

SPEAKER_02

Good. It's I'm a control freak. And I feel like for most of this entire process, I've had to like be such a control freak. And in this sense, I can't really be a control freak because it's not like I live with you. It's not like I'm I'm in I'm doing the medicines or you're tracking your own medicine. And I know that you're doing such a great job at it. And so like it it takes that entire element out. And it's almost like I feel selfish because I'm so relaxed in this process now. Not that it feels icky, but it feels like I should feel more pressure. I should feel more like I should be organizing things. Um, and so that element has been removed and it's very, it's just like a I don't know, it's more of a hopeful feeling now than the hopeful and anxiety that always was like behind it all.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's honestly, it sounds totally natural for you to feel that way. Obviously, all the pressure was just on your shoulders in the past. So I get that. Yeah. No, I think honestly, from my standpoint, you're so supportive. So I feel good going through this. So um, I'm not worried. Do you feel the anxiety that's that comes with it? I do a little bit once we do the transfer. I feel like then I'll be like, oh my God, just because it's not my baby, I'll I think I'll be like overly cautious with a lot of stuff, which is good for you. But no, no, I think I'm on good emotionally right now. I think I'm just anxious to get to the next step, which is our next appointment next week. So just to check and make sure all the meds that I'm on are doing what they're supposed to and my body's doing its what it's supposed to be doing. So I think that's exciting. Yeah, I'm just excited. But I think physically, I think my body took a day or two to get used to being on the estrogen. Actually, yeah. I think I don't even know if it was just from that, it could have been anything else, too. But I was like slightly nauseous at some points. I was like, ugh, I was like, that's a little weird. I usually don't get nauseous, and then I was like a little crampy, but that was in the two or the three of days now. Two. I'll start yeah, I'll start the three of days the night before the appointment next 15th. So 14th, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we'll see. But everything's leveled out, so I don't even notice anymore. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's probably why they start at two before three to ease you into it.

SPEAKER_00

Probably, but yeah, I'm not yeah, so my body probably just less was not used to that. But no, things are good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, things are good. It's especially for you, your body has always produced those things naturally. So for it to be induced, it was probably also a shock for your body.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because it's whoa, I've got my own routine. What are you doing? Right.

SPEAKER_00

Totally thrown and off.

SPEAKER_02

It tastes good. I can't even remember what effect it had on me when I first started the process. And I don't, my hormones are completely out of whack. My hormones are not balanced whatsoever. So I don't have the normal menstrual cycle that most women do, where you have hypergesterone this week, you have high this, you have high this. Like my body's just high testosterone all month long. My biggest takeaway from doing the estrogen was that I was just very emotional. And I'm an emotional being as it is. I can cry if I see someone cry. So I'm already emotional. But being on the estrogen, I feel like I was more needy with Jonathan. Yeah. What about you? Have there been any of that where you're like more emotional, more needy, more anything?

SPEAKER_00

I don't think any more than usual. I felt like I had like those like kind I did, I know I did. I had those emotional highs and lows when I was having my period anyway. Not for me, it's pretty. It was pretty usual, I think. But yeah. We'll see. We'll see as we

Agency Versus Independent Surrogacy

SPEAKER_00

go along. But yeah. So I think this week, what we want to talk about, I guess a lot of things, but why don't we just start with surrogacy and differences with that? And so so you want to help everyone understand like what what's the difference between what we're doing? So we're doing independent surrogacy versus agency.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So there are two forms of surrogacy. There's agency and independent, like you said. Agency surrogacy is even more relaxing than what I just said. This feels because they take over everything. So you find an agency. Obviously, you have to find an agency. And so you find an agency, and what they do is they do a survey of you and your partner. So, as the intended parents, they will survey you. They find out how many embryos do you have? Do you need to have, do you need to go through another IVF retrieval to get more embryos? And then what they do is they'll survey you to find you intended perspective surrogates. So if you say, I really want someone between the age of this and this, or I want someone who is in the same state as us, or things like that. So they'll take your questionnaire and then they'll find perspective surrogates and they try to pair you. So it's like an interview process where you would interview them, you find your perfect one, and then you go move forward with them. In agency and independent surrogacy, there are still pretty strict rules as far as who can be a surrogate. So the agency is even more particular than independent because the agency wants to make sure that the individual has had X amount of children already, has not had C-sections. They agencies don't even really allow for prospective surrogates to have to take like mental health medication. They're a little more strict in terms of who is eligible and who is not. And independent, you take away the agency side of it. So it's really just like you're finding someone on your own. So agencies, the reason someone might be thinking, why wouldn't you just go with agencies? They do all of it, right? They handle all the legal stuff, they handle everything. It's because of the expense. So surrogacy through agency is going to range anywhere from a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand. Cool. So not raise a house really, yeah. No, literally.

SPEAKER_01

Or just buy a new house.

SPEAKER_02

The best part is that they want the money basically up front. It's not like a payment plan. It's not like you can pay an installments through the years. By the time that your surrogate is supposed to have the transfer, your entire process should be paid for. Because from there, they are also taking the sum amount that they're going to pay the surrogate. So your surrogate, gotcha, when you go through an agency, is paid anywhere from 60K to 80K. Sorry, Haley.

SPEAKER_00

And here I am doing it for free. No, kidding.

SPEAKER_02

And so they're they're doing this as like a full-time job. So the agency is taking all of your money to coordinate everything, but also to make sure that there's the money there for them, right? Readily available, and not sure relying on the fact that you say you have fixed income and then something happens.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. No, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Insane. So we knew the moment that the doctor told us that we would not be able to sustain a full-term pregnancy. Once we looked that up, we were like, cool. So we can't afford surrogacy. And then we thought about adoption. And at the time, we obviously still had, we still have embryos. So when we were looking at adoption, it really was just to see the price difference. Adoption is also very expensive. You're looking at about the same amount of money for an adoption. So we were like, okay, let's look into what does independent surrogacy look like. Now, prior to us even considering asking people, I started looking at Facebook groups and tended parent Facebook groups where they talk about surrogacy and independent surrogacy. And then I found there are actual groups where you can go in and you can make an ad for yourself and your spouse. And you basically say, This is what we're looking for. We're looking for a surrogate in Illinois, yada yada. And then independent surrogates who qualify, and I'll tell you what those qualifications are, can respond and basically say, here's my fee. I would be interested. And then you don't go through the agency, you go through them directly. So I looked at that as well. They are still expecting the 60K to 80K, so we can't afford that either. Um but the qualifications for a surrogate, um, which I think we'll go over later, um, they have to obviously go make sure that they're eligible as well. And so then the third option is independent, independent, independent surrogacy. What is that? Which is like where you, yeah, which is like where you really just ask someone that you know. So us and then you yeah. So then you literally are just like doing everything. Basically, think of getting paid under

The Real Price Of Surrogacy

SPEAKER_02

the table in a sense, because it's like you're not going through an agency, you're not going through like any legal stuff until you actually find the legal team to do the thing. So like you don't have anyone coordinating anything but yourself. And so that is called independent surrogacy, but it's like I would consider it independent because you're really not even going through finding someone who is a normal surrogate, if that makes sense. Right. You're literally asking someone that you know who's like basically, hey, will you have my baby?

SPEAKER_00

Hey, yeah, no, so I really I don't think I've heard you talk through your thought process on or like you guys, like your decision on this before. So it's really interesting to hear. Um, just like how you how you started from, okay, this is we know we have to try something else. What do we do from here? And I think that helped that should help a lot of people. I really hope. So just you're getting to that hot rock and a hard spot. What are your options? And like, how did you guys personally figure all this out? Did you go through Illinois Fertility Clinic? Did they give you info, or was this a lot of this? Just your own search and Google searches. What did you do?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I have goosebumps right now because it's I'm it's literally taking me back. I don't think I've had this conversation in a long time. I think the hardest part of it was like when we had our last loss, I had to decide what is more important to me, having a baby or being pregnant. And so that was like a very hard decision. And that sounds like such an easy answer, right? Having the baby, duh. But to be a woman and to be told you're never gonna be able to sustain a pregnancy. First of all, to be a woman and to be told that you're infertile is like what you know, because especially there are women, I know that there are women like me who I've known since I was a kid I was born to be a mom. Yeah, and that sounds so arrogant. No, I've always known. As a kid, all the kids always were drawn to me. I was always playing teacher with my cousins, like any family party or just friend party, you will always see me on the side with the kids to this day. Yeah, kids are drawn to me, and I love kids. And so my whole life I've known I want to be a mother. And so when I first found out I was infertile, it was like shock, right? And it was okay, what do we gotta do? And then when you're going to IVF, you're following all these IVF influences and you're believing this is it, this is gonna happen for us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then you go through the egg retrieval and you have embryos, and oh my gosh, some people don't get embryos, and then it sticks, and you're like, oh my gosh, some people embryo doesn't stick the first try, it's gonna happen. And then you have a pregnancy test and you're like, ah, it's really happening, and then it's like it doesn't happen. Yeah, and then it just happens over and over. And so it's just like I don't even want to use the word roller coaster because it's not that it's like it's like an identity crisis because you are constantly finding out that everything that you want to be, you can't be. And so when we had our last loss, I had to decide what is more important having the baby or being pregnant. And when I decided being pregnant is not worth losing so many embryos if we continue, but then also losing myself because you really go down and really nasty, depressive episode after episode. That from there, thank goodness that I'm married to a man who, like from the very beginning, has said we are going to be parents regardless. If that's what we want to be, we will be that. And he has always said, if we ever come to the decision that we don't want to have kids or we can't do this, then that's okay. Like we're gonna make it work. We can just be really great uncles and aunt. But when we had that discussion where I was like, I can't do this, I can't do this again. He was like, Okay, then what's next? And he was very much on board of let's look into what's next. And when we found out we couldn't afford the what's next, he was like, Okay,

Choosing Parenthood Over Pregnancy

SPEAKER_02

what's next? Figure out what the next is. And I think that made the world the difference is of having a support system within my person, my husband, to be like, we're going to figure this out. We just have to find the what's next that works for us. Right. And it was hard to it was hard discussions that we've had throughout the years, even before we asked for anyone to like volunteer to be a surrogate for us. We had discussions about what would we want out of a surrogate and who do we have in mind to be our potential surrogate if it came down to us having to ask someone.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, it's just yeah, just going back to what you said. It's not even a roller coaster of that process. It's just, it's like the floor dropping out from under you, like again and again, and not even starting back from the point, like the high point, like you're down, like you're really down there. And it, I I mean, I I've seen you there and I hope to god I never see you there again. Cause that's that that's where some that's not where anyone should be. And I feel like society does put a huge pressure on just getting pregnant regular. You know what I mean? They say regular as soon as you get married. Hey, yo, when you're having kids, and that's just a whole nother level. People say it at weddings. Yeah, they're like, oh, better start now. People just don't understand that it's not like that for everybody. Majority, it's not like that for majority of people anymore. And it's and it's like you were talking about with the watching the people who you know show all the good stuff about infertility influencers or like we did it like this, now you can do it too. And it's like, not everyone has the same problems, yeah, and or the same outcome.

SPEAKER_02

IVF is not it's not a guaranteed baby, it's not a guaranteed process, and I think that isn't even spoken about much. And I feel like I wish more people did talk about that. I obviously when you're a content creator and you're an influencer, you want to influence people and give hope, and obviously, right? But and not for nothing. I remember there was one couple that did tell me, like someone that we personally know, that IVF didn't work for them. And they were very negative about the whole situation, of course. And they were like, it's just a money grab, and it's just doctors trying to get money out of you. I still don't think that. I still don't think that IVF is doctors trying to get money out of you. So I didn't agree with the sentiment at the time, and I still don't. I think IVF is a great source and it has worked for a lot of people. It's just it's just sad. Um, because like you mentioned, it's it's very common and it's just not talked about. It used to be one out of six women struggle with infertility. It is now one out of four, and that's changed since I started IVF. So when I started IVF, the stat was one out of six, it is now one out of four.

SPEAKER_00

It's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02

Isn't that insane?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's insane.

SPEAKER_00

It's wild, it's wild. And I swear, I I'm sure we could do an entire series of podcasts on why that is. And the reasons behind that. But I mean, so like how did how did you determine what qualifications your surrogate had to have? Or how did the clinic determine that for you? You want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so the clinic has specifications that include age. So they want the age to be anywhere from I think they have 21 to 40. They want someone who has had two at least two pregnancies, someone who has not had a C-section, and their last qualifier is someone who is essentially basically done having children. Um, and I think that the reason for that is more of a mental thing. Um, okay, I'm done and and I don't want to like I don't know, keep the baby. I don't know. Um yeah. And then for us we had qualifiers too. And like I said, we had in our mind before before we even really got to this stage, we knew the type of person that we would want to maybe ask. And so like um we have three ha um people that we had in our in our back pocket if we ever had to ask. And some of that, like for me, the biggest thing was someone who could take medicine seriously because I know how um it's very specific. You have to take your medication at a certain time. There's a lot of pills that you gotta take, vitamins, supplements. Um, your injections have to be at a specific time. Um, especially, for instance, like your trigger shot, it has to be a specific time because your body has to do certain things and it's all timed with when you're gonna have your transfer or when you start your period. So that one was huge for me. I wanted someone that I knew I could trust with taking that seriously. Um the second one that I knew that I really wanted um was someone that I knew we could trust. We knew it was people that we needed to trust, that we knew what their home was like, their life, their family dynamics. Um, because again, I don't the it's like you mentioned in the very beginning of the episode, you're gonna be very cautious, right? Because it's not your baby and like you're you're gonna be cautious. I was overly cautious and I would want the same, right? That was so unprompted of you that you said that. And that is literally what I am saying right now is I would want someone that could take that seriousness and that cautiousness of, oh no, I'm not gonna go and be around drugs. That's very common in today's day. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

It's just not another pregnancy. Yeah, it's like it's not your own, it's not, it's you know, like even if I'm thinking about like our you know, our second kid. Like I was I was like, oh, okay, date it once, like no big deal. Like, we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_02

So you ran a 5k when you were pregnant.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I forgot about that. I think I was like, I think it was like around 12 weeks too, and I was like, okay. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's just some it's you you definitely take, I hope anyone else would do the same, but you would take somebody else's most prized gift, most like dreamt of thing. I hope you would take better care of it than like you would something of your own. But but I mean that's that's just bringing it back to if you were to, you know, do a different type of circuit. Like if you were to have somebody else say you have no idea what it is, take your baby. I bet for me, I feel like that would be even 10 times harder.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

Like wow, the stress.

SPEAKER_02

Whether it was through agency or through that like Facebook independent one, I would have such a hard time, especially if they're in a different state or in a different country. I would have such a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know how people do that. Hey, I don't need that. I'll give kudos to anyone struggling out there who's doing that because wow, the amount of mental strength that you guys have absolutely insane.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you have to have that and almost like a sense of like a true trust on like just not that you shouldn't. But I'm saying like God, yeah, like you're really trusting God to have his entire hand on that. And not that I don't trust him, but it's more of a I don't trust people.

SPEAKER_00

At the end of the day, everyone has free will. Exactly. Yeah, that's insane. That's insane to think about. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What about you? What are your what are what have been like your thoughts and concerns about surrogacy? Because this was all new to both of us. This is completely new to both of us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. I think we did some general, or I might be done some general Googling. I know when we first met, you brought up a whole I don't know, you brought up your own ideas, I even thought of. But I think the main things that come to mind when I'm trying to remember that time when you first approached, well, after we said we wanted to talk about it. I think one, we talked about what are our plans for the next year? What do we have anything that would really stop us from doing this? Because obviously you're devoting a lot of your time to yeah, you're just divide, yeah, you got can't talk. You're giving all of your time and energy to this situation. So I need to make sure I had to make sure that there was nothing that was going to take me away from that. I think we talked about, you know, like different different costs associated with it. Like how how are we doing like because we hadn't even talked about financials at that point. Um, you know, also talked about like our kids, like we have, you know, a one and a half and a three-year-old now. Like, how how do we feel like they will take me being pregnant? And will they understand it? Like, will they understand that I'm not gonna come home with a baby after this? So um, I think for other people going through this situation, those are things you gotta think about. Like, yes, it is somebody else's baby, but it's also going to be a very big part of your life. Like, absolutely are there things in your career right now that you have to take into account? So I think we thought about all those things. And I'm at the end of the day, it's all things we can work around and all things that we feel confident enough to go in this process with you guys and get it done. But I'm just thankful, honestly, to like I said before, just do this with you and be able to go through this process with you. But I'm sure there's a million other things that flew through my head at that point. But now, very little concerns besides the shots.

Surrogate Qualifications And Trust

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Hey, it's no big deal. We'll get through it. I've I'm not a huge, I'm not a huge fan of shots per anyone else, but no, I'm not gonna die. Yeah, those start next week, but I'm sure we'll talk about those next week.

SPEAKER_02

And I'll be there for your first day of shots. I won't be there for your first day of your trigger shot just because that was like pre-proof. Yeah, it's just something the um the booty shots I'll be there for your first one.

SPEAKER_00

Which are like every night for the week, aren't they? Or longer on your longer, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's for your first 10 weeks.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. We can stop talking about that now. Okay, all right. Back to the good stuff. Better back to the good stuff. Yeah, I'm out. Okay, so let's move on to some fun stuff here. So let's talk about some myths that I actually chanced. GPT'd. I thought it'd be fun to kind of talk about debunk and hopefully none of you guys think this. But okay, number one circuits get pregnant the old-fashioned way.

SPEAKER_02

And you know what's funny is that I have a friend who did in-home surrogacy attempts with like oh no, that just popped up. Turkey baster with a turkey baster. Stop.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh my god. Okay. At first I thought at first I thought you were gonna say something else. So, yeah, guys, this is not the old-fashioned way. I did look it up. Traditional surrogacy was when the surrogate used their own egg. In this situation, no, Yaya and John already have these little cute embryos that uh freeze-dried, and one of those little babies is gonna get put into my uterus. So be a little teeny catheter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

We actually talk about what that means. So do that, yeah. So again, there's no turkey baser going into Haley. Nothing Okay, I'll just go get to it. So essentially, we have already had our egg retrieval where I the doctor pulls mature eggs out of me. That happened a few years ago, and then they take Jonathan's semen and they put it into the eggs with the hopes that they will be producing or reproduced into embryos, right? So of our eggies, we were able to produce a good amount of embryos, and the embryos they have them basically live for five to six days before they freeze them to make sure that they have developed all of the cells that they need to, so like the mitochondria the mitochondria, the cells, all that good stuff, and that they're healthy enough and they produced enough of those cells to know that they are healthy enough to be able to become a baby. So to become a fetus. So at the time of a transfer, Haley will be receiving an embryo that is literally already ready to become a fetus, and it has all the genetics that Jonathan and I were able to scientifically put together in in in our clinic by the hands of an amazing embryologist, and no DNA from Haley will have an impact on the fetus itself. And I think once the embryo sticks and she does her pregnancy test within two weeks, that is literally our fetus in her. Pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

Just pretty cool science. But yeah, so obviously, uh surrogates are not genetically related to the baby. So, like we just said, while I will be holding Yaya and John's embryo, my body is providing nutrients and everything it needs, but there is a placental barrier. So none of my genetics, DNA get transferred to the baby. So don't worry, everybody. It will be fully Jana and Yaya's little eggy.

SPEAKER_02

It's very it's basically like she's the oven. I am and we're just putting the bread in there. Yeah, it's like banana bread. Banana bread.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. Oh, okay. Okay, so the other myth here, we so anyone can be a surrogate. Like we talked about, there's a lot of things that go into who gets chosen as a surgate. So I think you guys can debunk that one yourself. And finally, surrogacy is the easy way out. I feel like whoever wants whoever says that it's crazy. We just went through nine, yeah, nine months of trying to get cleared, trying to get paperwork, trying to get contracts, paying lawyers. You guys, crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is not the easy way out whatsoever. And maybe it's easy for Kim Kardashian because she has all of those resources at her fingertips. But there was a lot of research that we had to do, a lot of chat GPT research and finding resources, and nothing was like handed to us, not even by our clinic. So we had to find our attorneys, we had to schedule that. I think the only thing that was nice that they did coordinate was our psych, which was good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, no, it's not easy whatsoever. Like Haley said, this has been nine months, and we are just now starting what we hope is a nine-month pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00

No. How from your perspective? Um, and I feel like he might touch on this a little bit earlier, but for you, how does this situation feel different from your original IBF, you know, stuff you had?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Completely different. So like I mentioned in the beginning, I think it takes con it takes away the scheduling, it takes away the anxiety, it takes away the pressure, it takes away so much. So, like I also mentioned when I was going through IBF, I was so strict on everything. I was strict on sense because of all the way that everything can like affect your hormones. I didn't have candles, I didn't have plug-ins, I didn't eat certain things. I took specific supplements in the morning and specific supplements in the nighttime. I wasn't when I was doing IVF, like in this process, I wasn't even working out because once you have your transfer, like you don't want your heart rate to be a certain level. So like I was I was so strict, everything was so strict and rigorous from the very moment that I started IVF because I wanted it to work so bad.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And because I knew that this wasn't a game. This wasn't just like a oh, we'll just toss this at the wall and hope that it sticks. It was very much like I I didn't want to be the reason it didn't work. Yeah. Right. I knew my body already was doing the things that it wanted to do to make it harder on me, but I didn't want to be the reason. There was a quote that I heard one time where it was like, because again, I was in all of these like IVF groups, and someone was asking, Do you think I should do this? The doctor hasn't said no, but it's just advise against. And everyone would respond and be like, ultimately, you have to do what you want to do or what you feel comfortable doing. Yeah. But don't do anything that you will later use as the as the reason if it doesn't work, right? Yeah. So like so most of like my process and the entire time was like, I didn't want to do anything that if I did lose a baby, I was like, it's because I did that. Even if like the chances were so low, I didn't want to be like, it's because I ate sushi or whatever. So this side of it is it's just it's so different. Like, I it's two weeks before your transfer, and I just ran a six, I just ran six miles this morning. Like, what? Never in my life, if I was doing IVF, would I be like, I'm gonna go run six miles. Like instead, I'd be like, I've gotta, I don't know, how I was spending two weeks. I was reading and I was trying to figure out ways to like, what did I do differently last time? Or I was I most of the two week before the transfer, I think I was all into my journals because I journaled every day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and every day of my transfer, after my transfer, I would journal yeah, symptoms and what I ate and how much did I walk. And because you want to walk to get your blood flowing. And I would journal and I would spend so much of my time anxiety ridden on

Haley’s Concerns And Family Logistics

SPEAKER_02

what do I need to do differently this time. Yeah. And this time it's not like that. This time it's there's still an anxiety level. And I was just having this conversation with my friend yesterday at dinner. There's still anxiety for me when it comes to you because I don't want to be the reason that you experience a miscarriage. You know what I mean? And I it's just it's a very traumatic experience, and it's one of those I I don't want to I don't want you to have to experience that. And I know that I've had this conversation with you multiple times, but it's like that there's that fear for me of I know that that's a possibility. I know that an embryo's not sticking and implanting is a possibility. And I know that the feelings of not just sadness, but a feeling of incompetence that come with those things. And I don't ever want you to feel that way. And for me, I do have that sense of fear and anxiety that you'll have to experience those things and you have never had to, and it's sad and it's depressing, and it it makes you feel like what did I do wrong, even when it's nothing that you did wrong. So there's that, there's still that for me, and it's a different level of because it's someone that I love and care about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I think like you even just like hearing you talk about like obviously like your experience with, you know, when you guys were getting ramped up to do a transfer and like just being so hyper aware of everything that you're doing, just because like you've had those struggles. Like you've you've had so many, you've tried so many different things just to like change it up, try to make sure like you're doing everything possible to make sure your body is in like the perfect shape to be a home. And that's that's difficult when you're already starting behind, you know, starting behind because your body's not doing what it's meant to be doing, which is hard. It's so I I understand. I understand a little bit of that feeling of just being hyper aware of what you're doing, just because you're like, is it right? Is it wrong? Should I be doing this? Should I not be doing this? And I do want to spend our next podcast talking about some of those pre-transfer week stuff. So we'll get into that too. But other than that, it's just yeah, I don't know. I definitely want to talk to you about what things do we want to be doing. Because at the end of the day, yes, it's me and what what I'm eating, what I'm what activities I'm doing, but we're in it together, and I want us to make some of those joint decisions because at the end of the day, that's what matters, and that's what I want you to feel like you do have some of that control back because you have such a lack of control, like you were saying. So, yeah, I hope we'll get to talking about that too. But um and I lost my train of thought. And I knew this was gonna happen. But yeah, I don't know, it's just hard. It's hard. I mean, I can't, like I said before, I can't even begin to realize the difficulty of your position.

SPEAKER_02

You know, yeah, no, but you've made it so easy, and I really mean that. The way that we can communicate, we have obviously a group chat with the four of us. Uh the way we communicate, the way you're very organized, the way like I said, back when it was just us doing it, I had to I had to be the lead in everything. I had to organize everything, I had to schedule everything, I had to order the meds and look at the research, and I was I was doing all of that on my own. And not to say that like Jonathan, you know, didn't care. It's just there's a different level of like concern associated with the woman when it comes to that stuff, I think, because it's it was my body failing. So I felt like I needed to do all these things.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And now in this process, like you've taken a lot of that. Um you given me so much relief because you are a type A person. Like when we started this process, you were like, here's all, here's, here's all of my labs, or like here's all of my medical records. And um, I've I'm getting this organized with my doctor. And when we were looking at an attorney, you had already found your attorney, and we were scheduling things simultaneously but together, and you've made this process so much easier. And I talk about this all the time to others where it's like, I can't imagine going through this with anyone but you. And I you've just you've taken so much true prior, like you've truly prioritized this process where I know that you care about it on a deeper level than if it was just a stranger or a friend. And I don't know if it's because your family or if it's because you as a person or both, but this process has been so easy because of you, and just like how open you have been and how flexible with all of the time changes and delays. And obviously, we joke about this a little bit because you're like, I'm so impatient. And whenever there have been delays, but you've never made us feel like we have inconvenienced you. You know what I mean? And this process, yeah, has been very different for me, but I think that it would be completely different if it was anyone else. You've made this so easy. And I feel feel very blessed that I'm doing this with you because I can't imagine our first time going through all of the question marks and roadblocks with someone who maybe isn't as caring and intentional with every step of the way with us.

SPEAKER_00

And I hope I never feel make you guys feel that way because that's one of my goals, one of my goals. You guys have been through enough. But let's touch on organization because I know we want to talk about that. And this, I honestly might be one of my favorite things ever. And I think you talked about this on one of your videos, but oh my god, I don't, I can't remember which med organizer you got, but I'm obsessed. Yes, I'm 100%. I love this all creams med organizers obsessed. Each one of these has my days for my meds and it has like a little triangle guy, and it has morning, noon, and night, whatever with the meds in it. I don't know. It's obviously the favorite part, but and I have alarm set for like when I'm supposed to take one of my medications and then another alarm, so I don't forget to take the second set of medications, and then the evening medications. So, yes, 100% hap, like happy to organize anything. I am your girl, but it does make life easy when you're when you have that personality, I think. And I know you're the same way. You got okay, look, let's say this you are organized, but then not always on time, my girlfriend. But that's just you. Oops. You know what's so funny is Jonathan and I just had this.

SPEAKER_02

I have a Charlie horse, so just bear with me.

SPEAKER_00

That's what you do when you run six miles.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Jonathan and I were just having this conversation recently. Hold on, we have the pause.

SPEAKER_00

You're keeping this in. Oh, I can't. Oh my god. And everyone, this is why you don't run six miles. Why would you ever run six miles? That's insane. No, I can't look at it. Yeah, you die, you literally die, and this is what shows you. Okay, we're gonna put disclaimer. Disclaimer, don't run ever. Oh my god, just stop running altogether. I know my dad'll love this if he ever listens to this. I'm like, see, dad, this is why don't run these so many miles.

unknown

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's because I didn't stretch when I got I just like jumped up.

SPEAKER_00

Jumped right into the podcast. All right. I think I I think it's an early end.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. Wow, that was terrible. It's like those ones where you wake up in the middle of the night and you can't even those are the worst. I yell scream. Here's John just passed out. Nope.

SPEAKER_02

No, seriously. You're talking about meta-organization. You're just talking about time. Meta-organization and time. Yeah. And my okay. But John and I were just talking about this because I am, I'm like a you're type A, I'm like a type A slash type B. My comfort level is type B. Yeah. So when I have to be, I'm type A. Like when it comes to like my work, my work is a type A. Everything, deadlines and projects and things like that. Very type A. Work, type A. He gets so upset because when I'm at work, if he texts me anything, we have a conversation about anything, I don't know that conversation 10 hours from now. I'm at work. I'm in work mode. Yep. And I don't, I carpet, I compartmentalize. Is that how you say it? Yep. I do that with all of my life. And if I'm in work mode, nothing else, I don't know anything else. This is where my brain is right now. If I'm if I'm at the gym, for instance, I'm in gym mode. Don't talk to me about work. I don't know anything about work right now. And so he gets so mad because he's type A. Oh, yeah. Where he like, yeah, he he

Surrogacy Myths And How Transfers Work

SPEAKER_02

his checks and balances is no joke. If we say we're gonna do something at two o'clock, we're doing that at two o'clock. And yeah, I'm not like that. I'm like when it came to IVF stuff, obviously I was in my IVF box. I was in IVF mode. But yeah, if I forget to take, I take meds now for my PCOS. And because I'm not doing IVF and I'm not in med mode, I sometimes forget to take them. And I'm like, oh shoot, did I take med foreman today? And whereas like when I was doing IVF, it was like, I had my organizer, I had my timers, but now I'm just like, oh yeah, did I take that? I'll take two just in case.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's funny. That's funny. You talk about John being type AAA because the last time all four of us, yeah, the last time all four of us took that trip. And it was me and John planning stuff. He's oh my god, I'm so happy not to be the only person planning stuff this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I was like, that's well, he's the type of person where if someone says, Oh, let's take a trip, by the time they finish that sentence, he's already looked at pricing for flights and he's already determined whether it's doable or not. Yes, that makes sense. And someone yeah, that's totally him. So I think if it comes in like type A through down mode, it would be like John, you maybe Matt.

SPEAKER_00

And then me. Yeah, I don't know where Matt falls in there. He'll have to play in next episode. We'll figure it out. But yeah, so organization, huge. It's honestly a lot of fun. But besides that, like how what we're doing right now or what I'm doing right now. Talk to us about that.

SPEAKER_02

Talk to us about what is your normal day-to-day and what

Transfer Prep Appointments And Lab Work

SPEAKER_02

like the transfer prep has been up until now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, can totally talk about that. So I guess once we got totally cleared, all good to go. The fertility clinic scheduled a set of three different appointments for me when they knew I was gonna start my cycle. So the first on first second day or third day of my cycle, I messaged them, let them know that happened. They had or already ordered me in some medications to the pharmacy, which the first one was birth control, which seems counterintuitive, but they just want to make sure that they have my body kind of regulated to the point where like they know what medications they need to start me on, when they need to start me on them, that kind of thing. So I started. The birth control. Um and that was only for a few days up until my next appointment when I saw them. Um so at that appointment, they um did an ultrasound. So they were checking my uterine lining, they were also checking both ovaries to make sure that there weren't any abnormalities um that they had to be worried about, which I did not have some cysts, which we talked about in the last um episode. But um they were like, that's fine. A lot of people have cysts. They're like, as long as they're not producing estrogen, which would throw off your body and like this whole process, then we're good. So um once they did that, we did some baseline labs, and those labs they looked at were um T A T S H, um, so thyroid hormone, your estrogen, my progesterone, and then a beta HCG. So just a pregnancy test to make sure I was obviously not pregnant. So um, so yeah, once all those came back, um, all those I think came back really good. The one TH TSH came back a little high, which is counterintuitive as well, because when that level's high, it means you don't have enough thyroid hormone, which is kind of crazy to think about. But um, and I also did some Googling on this for everyone, so everyone understands um thyroid hormone plays a huge part in the implantation process. So we have to make sure that it's at a good level. Um, so we don't have any issues there. And then baby also takes a lot of like depends a lot on that thyroid hormone in the first um few weeks. So making sure those levels are normal is what we need. So after the TSH came back, I was put on another medication, levithyroxine, which is just a synthetic winnies, synthetic thyroid hormone, which it was funny because me and Yaya, of course, were like texting back and she's like, Oh yeah, I was on that too. It's like perfect, we're in the same spot. But yeah, that's just a medication that I have to take before all my other meds and before I eat. So just added another wheel in there for me to organize out into. Pause.

SPEAKER_02

When do you take your level three? So like I I kept mine at my nightstand because I usually would wake up, like I still do. I usually wake up sometime between 3 and 5 a.m. And it's and I'll explain why. It's because Jonathan works night shift. Oh, okay. So he usually gets home sometime between 3:30. And if not, I wake up, where is he?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so somewhere between three and five, I usually wake up. And so I would keep it in my nightstand and I would keep it upright. And once I would take it, I would put it to the side. Yeah. So then I would wake up, and if it was on the side, I knew I took it. What's what how do you do your level thyroxis?

SPEAKER_00

That's funny. That's really funny. So I on good day, I will go and work out in the morning before I go to work. So I'm usually up and out of the house before five. So I'll try to take that by five and then take all my other meds at six when I'm done working out. And then that's when I usually eat anyway. So hour, they say an hour from when you take it is you're good to go ahead and eat and all that stuff. So that's a usual process. On a day that I can't, it's usually more around like 5 30 when I get up, and then I just push everything back by a half hour. So nice. That's pretty much it. But yeah, I totally get your waking up and looking for Matt because or Matt. Awkward. He's gonna listen to us and be like, okay, Haley, take another one, drink another one. Not drinking right now, but yeah, so I totally get that jump reaction of needing to make sure he's home because I think we were like texting for some reason at that time. I don't even know why. I don't even know why, but like, and I was like, Why the hell are you up? And she's waiting for John. I was like, oh, yeah. Makes sense, makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

But now I was during your drive, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wasn't it? Oh, because you had to wake up. I was up at 3 a.m. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Woof.

SPEAKER_00

Luckily, we're gonna have we have we're gonna have a sleepover this next week.

Long Drives To The Fertility Clinic

SPEAKER_00

Very exciting. Adult sleepovers, look at us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we're having a sleepover next week because um Haley's drive to our clinic in Indy is about a four to six hour drive. How long is it?

SPEAKER_00

The drive, like the drive time is like three to four hours. So it's like usually three, three and a half to four, depending on traffic. But with the time change, then it adds another hour ahead. Right. So it ends up being like five hours.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then that's just one trip to get there. And the appointments, in case you guys don't know, the appointments prior to your transfer are about five to ten minutes. Because they're really just going in there, they're just taking a look, and then they're just taking labs. Next week it's the same thing. She's gonna go in, they're gonna double check, make sure her ovaries look fine, do labs, make sure, like she said, her meds are actually doing what they need to be doing to her hormones. It took a five to ten minute appointment. And you're probably thinking, why are you guys going all the way to indie? Briefly explain. We started going to Indy when we first started IVF because the doctor himself

IVF Trauma, Anxiety, And Control

SPEAKER_02

was very highly referred. And for me, it's a two-hour drive. For Haley, it's the 3.54 hours, and it is insane. And again, one of those things that when we're when we were looking at who we would want as a surrogate, we knew that drive was going to be for sure a determining factor for anyone who even remotely said that they were considering it for us. So yeah, shout out you for making that drive because it's not fun. I used to wake up for my 8 a.m. in Indy, mind you, that's our 7 a.m. I would do 8 a.m. and then be back at work by 10. So I would literally get as early of an appointment as I could, get out of here as early as I could, and then come right back to work. So like I would wake up and get dressed for work at 4:30 or 4.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think not fun for yeah, it's a time change for me. The time change really screws with me, but I am happy that you gain an hour on the way back because if it's the opposite, oh my god, I might lose it. But I seriously though, driving the Indies is so annoying because you go north and it's longer, and then yeah, obviously, go south and it's driving straight through your house. And then I'm like, uh, this does make sense to me. But hey, I am not a GI geographical person at all. Okay, either. Me neither. I would fail that. Got lost today, actually. You got lost in your house or nothing. I got lost during my run. Yeah, no, I'm also not good with geography. Okay, reason number three, why you don't run six miles. You get lost. Oh god, oh god. All right, let's see. I'm a little funny today. But

Key Takeaways And Next Week Tease

SPEAKER_00

yeah, let's jump to let's close this up. How was how's it? Yeah, let's do it. What's your takeaways? Do you have takeaways?

SPEAKER_02

I think my takeaways is if you're starting the process of truly considering independent surrogacy, is find someone that you know you can trust that will take it seriously when it comes to appointments, when it comes to just being involved with the research as well. Obviously, you don't want to put all of it onto the gestational carrier because it's you're the intended parent, but it really makes a difference when you're doing this process with someone that you care about and that cares about you as much as you care about them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because yeah, if you have gone through IVF and you're going into the stage of surrogacy, it's because you've gone through some stuff and you don't wanna have to you don't wanna have to go through this phase also just feeling hopeless. So my takeaway is if you're going through this and you're looking to ask someone to be your surrogate, the person you ask is really gonna make this process easier for you because you don't feel like you're alone in it. And this entire process typically is very isolating. And so, yeah, it feels good to not feel so alone in researching and dealing with annoying doctors and things like that. So thank you again, Haley.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Anytime. Just the one time, though. Oh hopefully it's all it takes. Hey, no, not in that. I said, hey, I told Matt, I said, hey, I love Yaya, but we are popping out the one baby. I already said I'm not getting pregnant again, and here we are having another baby. I said, as long as we're not taking it home, that's fine. All jokes aside.

SPEAKER_02

Jokes on her, we're literally gonna have the baby and then I'll come to her house.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. That's fine. You can come over short period of time. We're good, short term. But yeah, it's I if I say anything to anyone else listening out there that's going through something similar, just just take a deep breath to start. I know that all this seems really heavy, and but yeah, just keep listening, keep rocking on, keep going for it. Yeah, but yeah, at the end of the day, this is not room service, it's woman service.

SPEAKER_02

I will check you guys next week. Next week is the week before transfer. So we'll be talking heavily about transfer prep and what all that entails. And then yeah, you guys will be listening to these episodes on transfer week. So that is very exciting.

SPEAKER_00

And wait, and if there's any way for you to click follow us, subscribe us, whatever that looks like, do it, do that. Because we're fun to listen to, right?

SPEAKER_02

Of course. Love you, Haley. Love you too, love you so much.